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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: November 05, 2019, 02:12:44 pm »

I'm worried about how different Hard will be and if I can finish it without restarting a character, especially since HP values are different in normal and hard, another concern is if psi empathy and 3 con can be managed by max evasion and maybe a slightly lower dodge. One primary concern I will reiterate is with this hard/classic playthrough I also want to explore what I missed choice wise by investing in persuasion. (Can dodge be min-maxed if ever? Maybe 40 to get fancy footwork and uncanny dodge, after all if I'm reading it correctly, uncanny dodge lasts for one turn only so excess stacks aren't really good?)

Am I just overthinking it coz I'll be playing it on hard, but shouldn't the feats I'm taking: e.g. fancy footwork, pretty much negate melee threats unless they start first or close in with sprint? Which leaves ranged combatants as the deadlier threat, however if I can reliably craft shields + power management then I should be fine? However, I'm worried 0 stealth + 3 con + hard difficulty + psy empathy would make me liable to getting bursted down, not to mention I played a high dex + 7 agi as my main before, not all the time did I get initiative for first turn.

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: November 04, 2019, 02:10:10 pm »

can bleed and crit not go hand in hand together? (taste for blood, the claw and recklessness, crit power, cheap shots etc.?

I see you skipped expertise, is expertise not really worth it if you're going for a crit build?

Can con go any lower maybe 7 at most? or is it risky enough given that it's on hard and I'm skipping dodge + evasion?

I'd probably just go for lightning punch over heavy armor and 18 dex, I don't see the build as a juggernaut any way.

Btw, thanks for the effort to actually input it into a skill calc.

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: November 04, 2019, 08:09:13 am »

Can I get an opinion? I made an alternative build focused on con for defense instead of dodge+evasion. Although the loss of fancy footwork, I'm considering putting 40 on dodge just to get fancy footwork for the god mobility. Although the build is aiming for 4ap, FF won't be a good investment early on since that is the point of having con to begin with, to weather damage. However once I reach 16 dex, 12ap will be turned to 4ap (counting tabi and lightning punches)

I changed up the build a little bit. instead of dodge + evasion, I went for 8 con at the cost of 7->4 wila and 7-> 5 int. (I'm torn between dumping wil to 3 and making con to 9, I could use some opinion here). I'm locking myself up from premeditation and force user but it allows me to invest in more skills with the lack of dodge and evasion. In the early levels it allows me to keep a "catching-up" investment on both mechanics and electronics while keeping persuasion and tailoring maxed up every level. (I'm still adamant with the extra lore options I missed in my first playthrough hence the persuasion investment, hopefully having such a skill on hard would not be a problem)

With the loss of the psi feats, I'm getting fast metabolism at 6 and taste for blood at level 14 (if taste for blood is slighty better for combo, then at level 12)

Regarding equipment, 20% armor penalty to keep lightning punches, although I am considering investing specialty points to 5% in order to increase armor to 25%.

I read that armor penalty does not reduce temporary MP bonuses, I'm assuming fancy footwork benefits from this?

Are the following damage feats alright? Not that I have a lot of options.Ttaste for blood + recklessness + opportunist + critical power + cheap shots + psychostatic electricity.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgMPBwgDBQUAHQDCoCgAAG8-AADCiMKRPSnCkQDCoABGeAAATwgrJyBQwocSBzzCiCYGSzHCsxNn4qGQBd-_

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: October 29, 2019, 06:00:00 pm »

Going no stealth + classic would force me to engage every encounter I see, the only reprieve to encounters would be people I can do persuasion on. What made my smg/stealth playthrough easier was probably how I managed to sneak my way past encounters (that double statue guardian in one of those expedition sites for instance).

I suppose it also made the game longer considering I didn't take the feat that lets you move a little quicker in stealth, overall I probably just want to experience the thrill of being on your toes during combat like depot a did for me. I'm sorta looking for variety this time.

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: October 28, 2019, 10:11:31 am »

Considering what you've mentioned, would it be better to adjust stats to dex 10, agi wil and int at 7 and the rest dumped? A point in int goes a long way for crafting skills. (Initially, it was 8 agi 7 wil and 6 int.) Unless I am missing an 8 agi requirement feat.

So far I like your suggestions and recommendations. Although, I still find it troublesome on balancing crafting skills + persuasion. Considering leather gloves being the bread and butter as you suggested, going for electronics + tailoring is still the way to go, correct? I just have to prioritize tailoring over electronics for armor and leather then?

Regarding compromising/min-max on dodge and evasion, is it left on the player to feel out how much they'll need for their encounters or should there be a minimum point investment for them, dodge in particular? I get the feeling that evasion is more important than dodge since I can retreat via fancy footwork or back myself up and set a wall even if the enemy sprints towards me.

This would be the first time I'll be trying out TM so I was under the impression 70 is the minimum without actually thinking why. Lmao.

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: October 27, 2019, 04:18:54 pm »

Very insightful feedback so far.

I realized that I have to start at 6 int for premeditation, however I'm not sure if I should compromise on agi to lower it and go for 7 will for force user. Is force user worth it more than getting blitz with 10 agi vs lower agi but 7 will?

 I reckon I'll have to invest in dex until I can get 4ap on the claw/combat gloves, but that seems like a long haul given the dex requirement for 4ap, 5-6ap is manageable though. Looking at it further it seems that most of the variants of the combat gloves apart from the steel have 12ap. At 16 dex + 1 food, tabi and lightning punches I'll be able to get 4ap per hit on a 12ap combat gloves. If I'm looking at it correctly, I can expect 10+2 dex on or after Depot A. Which if I can get a tabi from the vendor the black eels send you to near GMS + lightning punches it'll be 6ap at that point.

On the subject of combat gloves, are these like gun frames that they each provide a unique bonus suited for their playstyle or do people generally stop using the leather combat gloves by late game? I never got to try out tailoring that much, regarding crafting I only crafted grenades and smg frames on my first playthrough as I never needed anything else, idk but Aran's armor was sufficient enough in DC.

I too like the gimmick behind dirty kick, although there are just too many feats to consider that some seem to be more practical than others, especially early on.

Are cheap shots proc reliable enough to consider getting opportunist? A huge chunk of my smg damage came from the persistent pros of opportunist via suppressive fire.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?DAMNCgMDBQYAFABGMkYAOikAAAA9AAAAAEYARjIAAE8kKycgEyoSB9-_ I did a little revision, regarding the skills it was mostly to what I'll need the most and available from early on. However, between level 10 and 12, I'm stuck between getting blitz, combo and expose weakness. What are your thoughts on the skill investment on this one? If I take out persuasion I can definitely put more into electronics and even mechanics. However, I'd love an alternative playthrough with persuasion to keep things fresh.

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Builds / Re: Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: October 26, 2019, 03:46:39 pm »

My impression with going combat gloveless for my unarmed build is that it takes away having to invest in mechanics early on. However, is it a viable alternative to go gloveless and just raw fists complemented primarily by force emission/proxy or am I in for a difficult time? With combat gloves, is it still possible to reach 4ap? (Just clarifying this one), it feels like with tabi + lightning punches and 12 dex by level 12 it feels like I still won't reach 4ap by then? So it's a longer investment? I'm not sure on this one.

Is the -1 force emission cost the primary reason I'm getting force user or is it the wall up-time or the overall utility it gives to the early psychokinesis abilities?

Should I leave out paranoia for packrathound at level 2? I feel like Depot A's mine fields will force me to save and load a lot without it.

Regarding cheap shots, it feels like the next 5 feats after level 2 are very important to be locked in early on. Maybe a level 14/16 feat instead? Is it that good even with the daze alone?

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Builds / Need opinion/criticism on my psi-monk build

« on: October 26, 2019, 02:00:44 pm »

Having beaten the game on normal/oddity with smg+stealth

I plan to make an unarmed dex psi-monk for my second playthrough on hard/classic xp. It will be no gloves just fist + TM (70 cap) and Psychokinesis, aiming for a 4ap per hit build at 3 str 10 dex 10 agi 3 con 3 per 5 wil 6 int. Later on it will be 12 dex and either 7 int or 7 wil depending on your opinion.

Looking at the build of one named Ken Molinaro on youtube who's been playing with an unarmed time-monk. He never bothered maxing the dodge and evasion the same way you would normally max out important skills every level up. He is however playing on hard and that I believe he's still investing on them but not prioritizing them.

My first question is this:

Playing on Hard without stealth, obviously, I'd have to brute force my way on every encounters since no stealth investment won't allow me to avoid combat.

Is it essential that I max dodge and evasion every time I level up? To be complemented by dodge/evasion boosting items + nimble or can I make do without doing so and the excess skill points to be invested in other skills? From Ken Molinaro's youtube videos, he maximized avoiding damage by using fancy footwork to create distance against his enemies.

My second question:

Would it be alright, given that I will have points in dexterity and int, to safely invest enough points in lockpick and hacking so that the bonus skill value is at the amount of the maximum base skill allocatable instead of increasing the base skill to max? Basically I'll rely on higher-level haxxor and lockpicks in case I have trouble unlocking them.

My third question:

Despite playing on hard, I still wish to experience what I missed with my first playthrough since it was a no persuasion run. As such, with regard to min-maxing dodge/evasion and lockpick/hacking I plan to invest "excess" skill points in persuasion and crafting skills. Any thoughts on the ratio of persuasion per level that I should have? Is having persuasion at all still viable or a game-breaking waste on hard?

Anyway, this is an idea of the build that I have, it's kinda rough around the edges, I just level it at 12 as I frankly don't have a clue on what feats to get for the next levels, I haven't even placed packrathound in there.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?DAMMCgMDBQcAFQBGRkYAPC0AAABGAAAOAEYARgAAACskTyggEyoSB9-_ (capped at level 12 atm, for easier consideration, I also think early-mid game build would be important to factor as it makes or breaks how the game would be)

Regarding certain feats, how is improved unarmed combat and cheapshots? Improved unarmed combat seems like a feat to have but seems to be overshadowed early on by the "must-have feats" and unarmed's crit chance of 5% seems low to benefit effectively from cheap shots.

I found my smg-stealth boring in a manner that there isn't a lot of feats to consider as the build is effective already from a select number of feats, after looking at a possible playthrough for this I was amazed with the amount of feats to consider.

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Builds / Re: Smg, trap and stealth, (maybe throwing) bad or viable, too spread out?

« on: October 23, 2019, 04:11:06 pm »

I just finished the game for the first time with this build, played on normal and dumped dex to 14 the rest to perception. You can literally get by through a normal difficulty game with just spamming burst, occasional quick tinkering to save your ass.

All in all, there are difficult portions particularly in the early-mid where I chose to do expedition that would have been hard to finish, stealth got me through them. Returning to underrail after expedition main quest, almost everything was a breeze with just burst. The only thing killing me is strong damage bursts from various stealthed enemies and psionics. This build is pretty boring, I went on the assumption that traps would help me, however, I think it's the high stealth that allowed me to skip combats where traps would have been necessary.

In conclusion, I personally found the build boring, you can add more active gun feats but what for if burst works to end it quickly.

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Suggestions / A way to make noise to attract attention for a non-lethal approach, maybe thrown

« on: September 21, 2019, 03:56:25 am »

IDK if I missed this in the game as I'm only 16 hours or so in. Maybe this exists in the game or maybe someone has brought this up before, apologies!

As the title says, this could give the stealth mechanic an improvement. Not being reliant on forcing enemies to get killed via mines and thus giving you an opportunity for a non-lethal approach nor would you be required to say, bait enemies with grenades. Maybe this could be used while in stealth. Therefore with this, you don't have to waste grenades or anything else (not like they're not in abundance, there's a risk of collateral with the item, however).

For a game that's set underground with a near-infinite amount of rocks, throwable pebbles sure are missing. Otherwise, a tool that makes a clicking noise would be nice. While the sound stems from your own character, investing in interloper would be good as it allows you to quickly maneuver away.

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Builds / Re: Smg, trap and stealth, (maybe throwing) bad or viable, too spread out?

« on: September 20, 2019, 12:38:21 pm »

Switched to steel cat, has a 24 ap burst, and I only have 50 ap. I bet my silenced jaguar could manage 3.

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Builds / Re: Smg, trap and stealth, (maybe throwing) bad or viable, too spread out?

« on: September 17, 2019, 01:50:26 pm »

I myself went for four int but don't tell Gortsby 

I needed went for 10 perception instead of 9 since I read that burst acc sucks and you need to compensate with as much perception as you can. I do see the point of having more dex tho, I can't even burst twice after firing this jaguar i got.

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Builds / Re: Smg, trap and stealth, (maybe throwing) bad or viable, too spread out?

« on: September 16, 2019, 01:35:28 pm »

Just wondering, is it worth speccing into crafting skills (mechanics, tailoring, electronics) if I dump int to 3? or is it best to drop a bit of perception etc. and instead put 6 points into intel?

From what TheAverageGortsby said, you'll get delayed due to the penalties, but pretty much what a 3 int will only miss is the feats that come with high int. High ints reach the crafting level desired earlier than chumps with lower int. 

EDIT: Assuming of course, this is not a psi build.

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Builds / Re: Noob needs help with Sniper-Traps-Stealth-Crafting

« on: September 16, 2019, 03:14:35 am »

Like what Kiruha said, sniper rifles are loud, although since I only got passed Depot A as a psi-trap before getting a save wiped idk how a sniper main fights once the the encounter begins; How do you fight? I'm you set traps, delete one and fall back to where your traps are?

I do see your point, I played psi-trapper and I did what you want to do except I don't have a sniper rifle, usually I let them see me and run away to my traps or try to get a spell out.

You need a good amount of stealth to successfully tip an encounter in your favor from what I observed but it's dependent on the room. Either the encounter will be in the next room and blocked by a door, leaving you with all the space to maneuver and plan your deathtrap in the current room or they're patrolling an area 15 tiles away but it's an open area so there's not much room to set traps without getting spotted. Either way, from what I've played with my psi, being a trapper allowed me to burst enemies since I can trigger traps reliably with an aoe ability (pyrokinesis) idk how reliable thrown grenades are at 30-40 points but if you are playing guns I'd assume you'll need a reliable method to trigger them, psi allows you to either trigger traps at your own discretion either by hurling an aoe fireball or funneling them with an impassable psychic wall.

Idk if this really works but if an encounter was difficult (last bit of depot a) I placed an extra mine next to one and maximized the space available so I could trigger at least 3 explosions without one affecting the other (2 mines each). Followed by several bear traps ofc.

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Builds / Re: Smg, trap and stealth, (maybe throwing) bad or viable, too spread out?

« on: September 15, 2019, 03:19:15 pm »

5 in a stat is a rookie mistake most of the time - you're not going to succeed at tasks with 5 in a stat that you couldn't succeed at with 3, and those 2 stat points are better off going somewhere more useful.  So I'd suggest either drop Int to 3 and raise Dex or Con, or drop Con and accept that you're going to be very squishy, and put another point or two in Int to free up a lot of skill points (you're going to want Mechanics, Chemistry, Biology, Tailoring, and Mercantile at a bare minimum so there're five skills that scale off of Int - six if you plan to pick up Hacking).

What makes con "dump-able?" I've been seeing videos of SMG builds that don't use steel armor, is it the shield or the dodge/evasion? mix of both? Also saw a post that affirms that beating the game is doable at dumped con and no points to dodge/evasion, although I reckon it takes great familiarity of the game mechanics to do so which I don't possess atm.

You also suggested either I pump 7 to int or I make it a dump stat, is it safe to interpret that despite the handicap of having 3 int, this only means that maybe up to the mid-game I'll suffer penalties to the crafting stats which otherwise is negligible in the late game? I'm a little torn on how to invest on my stats at this point after considering your guidance, I've dumped str, con and wil but idk if agi should be 6 or 7 and perception 8 or 9 and if int should be at 6 or 7. Dex at this point is 10. From what I saw of other guides dex is pumped until 14 or 15 (14 then food is apparently viable)

If I'm following you, either dump or pump into a stat and never go for a safety 4 or 5 to off-set penalty, correct?