Optimized LMG/Minigun + Fusion Cannon Build? (Morphine Druggie PER-max Heavy)

[Elerai]

https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDAwUOAwc8wqBtAAAAAFA_SzIAdWoIN0wAAHNGABQ8OyZNw50VT8OfSsOhCCrCh8OiwprCtcKFKSvCnsKd4qe0CuK_hgXfvA



Another theorycrafted build, this time to make LMG/Miniguns comparable to their AR overlords. Not playtested.

So, the main payoff for LMG/AR is Concentrated Fire, right? To maximize the damage of Concentrated Fire, you need 95% accuracy, or as close you can get to it. But while ARs can run ambush to halve evasion, LMG/Miniguns need to be 95% armor penalty tincans for Heavy Metal, the main payoff that is unique for them.

However, Heavy Metal is indeed a strong payoff. As are Ratchets with +6 (with Full Auto, +8 with Muzzle Brake, +10 with MagDump) Bullet Bursts with Expertise at 25 AP only. So lets start looking at the solutions.


Accuracy:  For an LMG burst to instagib a target, you need this as high as you can. Without ambush or shell shock; you're limited to as high of a perception you can manage.

Fortunately, Brute Aim is truly brutal in this aspect, allowing you to hit very high perception values as long as you don't need many points in other stats. 16(+3) is your baseline, +1 from Juice, +1-3 from Food, +2/+2 from Supersoldier Drug and Bioluminous Marsh Honey for really difficult fights. If you're popping them all, you can freely use Iron Head for ~45% damage boost from Heavy Metal +5 since you're actually overcapped on +PER (11, max 10). Insane damage; if you need more, use Miniguns over LMGs (typically vs bosses, 12.7mm Contaminated Bullets).


Overkill:  Playtesting this build (using CE on a lategame save) makes this issue, pointed out by commentator below, very pressing. LMGs with Concentrated Fire +10, Heavy Metal +5 and 16 PER (+3 from Brute Aim) is absolutely overkill for single target damage. Even bosses, assuming you're using 12.7mm Contaminated Bullet Miniguns.

My solution is the Fusion Cannon. There's already a lot of overlap in a Fusion Cannon build and a Minigun build; so making some changes to the build to make the Fusion Cannon a viable secondary weapon is the main way this build is distinct from AR builds. While AR builds do have Grenade Launchers, they aren't as damaging without Demolition Man, and even with Demolition Man, Fusion Cannon is an absolute force of nature with Heavy Metal +5.

The updated build reflects that. What I replaced was Gun Nut and Decomissioner; Gun Nut is simply not necessary with the overkill single target damage of LMGs and Miniguns with that high perception, neither was Decomissioner, even vs Nagas. The MG3-42 is a very viable alternative to a custom Ratchet (especially as it uses the common 7.62 ammo), further lowering value of Gun Nut.

In exchange, Tricky Trajectory and High Technicalities come in, at L22 and L24. Tricky Trajectory is very powerful, mostly because it lowers evasion on top of the damage; and High Technicalities with 7 (+2) INT is a very good feat to take even for a secondary weapon (+16-32% damage). Its not worth it to specialize in HT without 10+ INT, so you still specialize in Concentrated Fire levels 20-30, allowing you to oneshot bosses with LMGs/Miniguns, and Mobs with TNT + Fusion Cannon. Be sure to keep a stealth armor set to set up TNT lure, then quickly swap back to your 95% Armor Penalty set as the enemies start grouping up.


Survivality:  This is the main issue compared to ARs. ARs can plink off 4+ targets instead of 3 per turn because commando and rapid reloader, and move behind cover afterwards. And do it from a longer range compared to Heavy Guns.

My solution is drugs. Namely, Morphine. Morphine + Aegis + Conditioning is 75% DR from the most common damage sources, switch to Balor's Hammer before you end turn for +20% Mech DR from Heavy Metal. Use Lifting Belt or eat Canned Meat before the fight for 100% Mech DR for 3 turns. The heavy armor should protect somewhat from other damage types. Lategame, All-In + Supersoldier Drug also reaches 100%, as does 13 STR Minigun Heavy Metal, Supersoldier Drug and Lifting Belt + Canned Meat; if you want Minigun + Fusion Cannon for whatever reason.

Use a blast cloth tabi/balaclava if needed. Energy Shield (High/High) is good vs energy and electrical attacks. And, of course, Bullheads. You need a lot of them. If you hate fishing with 3 DEX, get Merchant Refresh and stock up on Demon Squids from Al Fabet. Easier fights don't need this much of course; a Flashbang is enough.


Economy:  The last hurdle. I offer two solutions.

One, Metathermics for the really trash mobs. Thermo Destabilization is good even in big fights; but tears smaller ones apart, especially with a grenade or two.

Two, Disassemble. Disassemble is very strong for Heavy Gun builds because Fusion Cannon; even if you're not building around it, Heavy Metal + high PER is often good enough. Disassemble at 2nd level + Pickpocketing should theoretically give enough money to keep your ammo belts filled. Or to craft your stuff in time, especially your first LMG and your first set of Heavy Armor for Heavy Metal.


In the really tough fights, buff to the max, pull out your contaminated bullet 12.7 Terminator, pop Vitality Powder + PTC (with PTA) for 90 AP, enough for two bursts per turn for 3 turns (if you premeditate Stasis to keep your buffs live for one more turn). This should melt through anything and everything, especially on the third turn when Mag Dump + Jumpstarter MKII with 4 stacks gives you 19 bullets per burst.


Don't underestimate stealth; put points into it. You're not that durable without drugs, neither is your initiative great. Swapping to stealth armor set + Cloaking Device can help a lot before entering certain areas.


10 STR/10 PER/7 INT/4 CON.

Put a point into CON at 16 to take Conditioning.


It might be possible to do the same build without Conditioning, and put the CON points into PER for max PER, but it is not easy to replace that 10% DR. If you use something like Kozozel, you're losing the PER you gained anyway; specialization points into Heavy Metal DR is your best option; but the accuracy boost from +2 PER may not be worth the damage loss from -5 Spec Points, plus the other benefits of Conditioning and 5 CON.


Footnote: The Builder is a bit bugged; Full Auto and Concentrated Fire can be taken with Heavy Guns, but in the editor I cannot, so I put 60 points in guns which won't be needed in game (only 25 for High Technicalities, so you can put points into Guns earlygame to use ARs better)

[Sat]

Been playing (very slowly...) with LMGs recently on Dominating so many remarks may not be accurate on Normal or Hard or for very end game as I am still far from it.
As you are putting a question mark, I will answer that I think that there are more optimized builds for a LMG/Minigun build.

First, you can use ambush with LMGs to get crit chance and reduced evasion. It is a good addition to any LMG/Minigun build especially for the early game.
Expertise is not very efficient in my opinion as the damage raise is rather low. Many other options are better.

You did a good summary of the useful offensive feats: Suppressive fire, Opportunist, Brute aim, Full auto, Concentrated fire, Mag Dump, Heavy Metal. It will shred most enemies including bosses.

You are right to mention accuracy as an issue for LMGs but you do not need max Per even on Dominating to clear maps. it is more important to have survivability which means more hit points (and with feats like thick skull, juggernaut, fast metabolism, bodybuilding). I would trade Int points for more Con and reduce even Per as well to reach either 10 or better 12 Con. It will raise a lot surviving chances during long fights and you can be (a bit more) sloppy and do not rely on cheese. This way also, mobility is not really missing. You mention to use drugs instead but it will not be as reliable on many fights with enemies arriving from all sides at different timing.
Back on accuracy, with something as low as 20%, you will kill a target in one burst.
With 16 bullets (Muzzled ratchet + Full Auto + Specialized Mag Dump) and 3 shots per turn (4 on the second turn), you can kill more enemies than you mention. I was surprised several times that some enemies not visible on the screen got killed just for being in the cone.

Balor hammer is a good idea but you will need most of the time another heavy gun instead to avoid reloading and have something different (Barrel compensator or minigun or different ammo size).

On the economy, I faced no issue except during the very first part of the game (up to level 6?). The most annoying is carrying enough bullets. Metathermics is a good addition that I am not using so far and I should probably, you may add some skill points for Electrokinetic Imprint (very situational but very useful on some selected fights).

With low int, you would probably reply that crafting is very delayed. This is very true and you will have to use collected gears on first levels. After depot A, you can start Heavy Duties and come back without any fights to the main map with high end gear from your partners.
With Hypercerebrix, Jons special and house, you cannot craft a top end armor (like 4xSS metal armor, is it really needed?) but you can reach high enough resistances  with mix of different metal and vests.

If you are looking for someting optimized with LMGs, no need of Int and have Per around 15 or 13 (cannot say yet for sure but 13 is looking far enough so far). This is what I found more balanced and synergized between damage and survivability. 5 con is definitely not enough on Dominating unless you plan to rely a lot on bear traps, gas grenades, reloads. LMG appears to be a stronger weapon choice than AR. They lack versatility but they can pack much more damage on targets. The way of playing is still fun and is really interesting as you can have a very brutal approach from almost the beginning of the game. All in all, I think that it is a solid weapon choice for having a not too difficult early game on dominating oddities (a bit tough up to level 4).

[Elerai]

You can kill someone with 20% Accuracy??? Wtf. I didn't expect that lol. Not playtested build ofc.

As for ambush, I guess the Evasion cut cancels the accuracy penalty from Move and Shoot; in the worst case when you can't move into dark spot while staying in optimal range with a 95% stealth penalty armor. Playtesting needed.

One thing you do forget: Fusion Cannon. Sure, I don't have High Technicalities or Tricky Trajectory or Bullet Trance; but Tricky Trajectory is a single feat I can slot into my build, say, in exchange for Power Management (or something); and massively improve the flexibility of my build; since with that high PER, even without High Technicalities +5, Bullet Trance +5, or Tricky Trajectory +5; my Fusion Cannon should do decent damage; because 7 INT enables Dissassemble. Also, if I don't need that much damage; I can spec away some of my Concentrated Fire points into Tricky Trajectory (damage).

Is the difference between 440 HP and 600 HP that big? Assuming +160 from Sturdy Vest. You get even more HP and DR from All-In and Supersoldier Drug lategame too. Is it because Heavy Guns make too much noise, extending fights beyond 3 turns? (4 with Stasis)

But yeah, I can't really say too much without actually playing it. I'll concede the rest to your wisdom 

[Sat]

10% is even sometimes enough... You could kill 4 targets while only 1 is really in your vision with around 20-30% hit chance. I guess you would do the same with AR (with less impact as less bullets per shot).

Why move and shoot? You have no movement points so you move with your action points (Heavy metal, metal armor, no agility). Very often you cannot hide behind cover but your metal armor and other feats help there.
Not an expert on Fusion canon beyond collecting it, there is a build that was played in the forum that looks more appropriate.

The difference between 5 con and 12 con is huge especially when you factor Juggernaut and bodybuilding (+ Protectorate Tatoo), if you add Last Stand, conditionning, thick skull and fast metabolism you will end up with something very resilient that still pack an extremely high amount of damage.
There is no point in using all-in on this type of build, you expose for little offensive benefits (better to use mushroom salad or chips).

Side note, to optimize an lmg build for dominating,  tempered electricity is appealing and would make life easier as TC users are a big pain with neural overload and bilocation. But cannot confirm yet if this -30% damage would be significant enough for the compound/expedition.

It is a very different playstyle where you accept of being hit... The good point is that you often do not need to reload when being hit (hello snipers and crossbow).
If you write Ultimate or Optimized, you should at least look for real synergies... a high Int or high Per LMGs or even agile in light armor is very playable if it is your preferences but not really optimized...

[Elerai]

Edited my build to address the issues presented. While mobility can be an issue, the sheer damage output, particularly AOE from the Fusion Cannon means I rarely need to move too much; and if I can begin combat on my terms, I don't really need HP either, even a single turn (+1 from Stasis) is enough to win, especially if I swap to a stealth armor set and use TNT to group enemies up before engaging.

Mind you, I playtested with Cheat Engine in a lategame save; but better than not playtesting at all. This does give the build some overlap with the dedicated Fusion Cannon build, but it should be much smoother than that because early game it uses Assault Rifles instead of Sledgehammers (with Opportunist + Suppressive Fire), and better at single target damage. The Fusion Cannon build needs bullet trance to beat tough opponents, and is very dependent on enemies needing to be grouped up, this on is more versatile. It might even do more damage on the first Fusion Cannon shot because 16 PER vs HT+5 and 10 INT; and 1 PER is similar to HT+5 1 INT at 160 skill, damage-wise.

Ultimately, this is a different playstyle than a normal tincan LMG with high CON and all the survivality feats. This needs a bit more micro (with swapping to stealth armor and laying traps/tnt etc), but I feel it should be better than the default one. I feel like the best tank build is 18 CON 3 PER Shotgun build; using LMGs over Shotguns just forces you to invest into STR and PER instead of dumping it all on CON (+Conditioning, Last Stand, 7 WIL Stoicism etc).

Also, you move with PTC movement points.

Lastly, I did consider Ambush, but Ambush doesn't boost Fusion Cannon damage.