Let's talk about new PSI System!

[VaeliusNoctu]

Puh much to read here. With the actual Patch it is possible to play a nice game with that Character? Or is he bad skilled?

Stealth/Sniper and PSI (21):

5 STR

3 DEX

9 AGY

4 CON

10 PER

10 WIL

4 INT

i go for Gun (max), Throw (70), Evasion (max), Stealth (100),  Lock and Hacking (65), Mechanic (100), Tailoring (100), Chem (20), Bio (40), Electronics (30), Thought Control (104)

Aimed Shot, Doctor, Hit and Run, Opportunist, PSI Emathy, Recklessnes, Sprint, Interlooper

And if i must redone what would you suggest me for the same Build be Effective? A Stealth Sniper with a bit PSI Or maybe a Assault Gun Heavy Armor Build.

BTW is the game now Balanced enough for a Heavy Armor Melee Build? I mean a BIG FET Armor like Steel Armor and a BIG Hammer?^^

[Greep]

Game was always balanced for a (shock-) hammer build with agility for sprint and biology for jumping beans, even if it wasn't the best build   But yes, more specifically there is thick skull and heavyweight feats, specifically designed for that build.

But yeah your character is fine, the new psi stuff really only affects multi-disciplined psi players.  L&H is kinda low, though, yours is better off just choosing one rather than half assing both xD

[Greep]

- Resolve/fortitude is tested against your effective skill level, but they scale from level and attributes. Also NPCs don't have a natural bonus to them unlike to dodge and evasion. This could mean psionic CC is fairly unlike to be resisted even if you have 3 will, but I sure hope that's not the case.

Well elekinesis and stasis are irresistable, so there's 2 there

In my experience for everything else: psi is "semi-reliable" at synergized 3 will given opponents that are sensitive, somewhere in the 60-80% range.  I.e., don't go around t-punching anyone with a fat health bar or fearing a mindreader.  Thought control seems to be worse than t-punch as far as resisting.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Do the Patches changed how attributes work? Thats what i read and understud from underrail Wikki.

STR = affects melee damage and carry capacity
DEX = affects locks, thievery, throwing and initiative. It increases critical strike chance of melee attacks and reduces action point cost of unarmed and light weapons
AGY = affects dodge, evasion, initiative and movement points and stealth
CON = affects health and stamina and prevent or lessen the effects of poisons and diseases
PER = Hit chance with Ranged weapons and detected unvisible targets, hidden rooms
WIL = Hit chance for PSI effects and resist PSI effects
INZ= more Skillpoints every Level Up?

[VaeliusNoctu]

Cool Dex and Str hah so i dont must go for DEX in my next Sledgehammer Heavy Armor Build good to know. I Plan to make him Focus on STR (12),CON (10) and Agility (10) low PER(4),WIL(3),INT(4), DEX (3). No PSI and other weapons then a Mighty Hammer lol. So should the Stats after 25 i think.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Oh good you say that i forgot it yes so better DEX i think.

[Mindless]

Do it in narrow passage, where even if you're drop it on feet, AOE will hit the bot.

Okay this is some sort of "solution". I was partly wrong here but with this you can only stun one bot(with guarantee hit i mean), you need to have no electronics(this can/will hit you as well).
Which means this is not the same situation where you have good throwing skill.

With all you can find further - enough for all psi-beetles\bots, if you don't sling lightnings at every cave poppers, and use Quinton's crossbow at rathounds.

That's it! You need to use another weapon(with 0 skill, right?) to start with, you can't comfortably play from the beginning =P
And you can of course say that it will only last "a hour" or "I will punch these angry rathounds by my magnificent fists"...

What a load of BSness. What - you kill rathound with 800 crit, and what?
CC+nuke+stunlock=PSI.

OR you can kill heavy armored guy with this crit! or... Drednought but in 2 hits =(
And if you have 0 psi you are deadman!
And this discussion will never ends cuz you think that psionic user is superior to any other build(well you have said only about pistolet's build) in any situation.
I really can't see a battle where my gun's build will be suffer much more than psi-user. oO

- Unlike all other weapons, they don't need any Will (or even skill) to increase their precision.
- Other weapons need higher than average base ability behind them for adequate precision.
- Resolve/fortitude is tested against your effective skill level, but they scale from level and attributes. Also NPCs don't have a natural bonus to them unlike to dodge and evasion. This could mean psionic CC is fairly unlike to be resisted even if you have 3 will, but I sure hope that's not the case.

Sad but True =(
But you still need high will for the best psi feats and Psi-users have their drawbacks too.

- Skill synergies are enough to max them for your level and even save some points - at frigging minimum Will!

?

I gotta mention this. I remember critting for over 1200 once in the previous version with my non-crit test psi build. And for what AP cost? 5. (Tranquility, T-proxy, premed, T-punch, both crits)

Well this is cool indeed but! You used T-proxy and Premeditation(not just T-punch) + you get 2 crits with no crit build(!) and what is the chance of this?
And i was telling about common situation. I can destroy any enemy in 2 hits max(except bladeling - immune to crits)... And how many hits you need to destroy Drednought for ex by psi-user?

[Mindless]

Irrelevant. The topic was psi as secondary skills.

Some people takes Locus of Control even in this case. Right?

1) 1200 damage with 5 AP cost. Nothing else comes anywhere close in terms of damage/AP.

1. This is not regular one. You mentioned that your build is not around crit(chance + damage) than it is very rare situation, right? And with this example you get your abilities on cd.

But that's just how psionics are. With premeditation and tranquility they have ridiculously high anything per AP compared to other weapons. But it isn't a problem - as long as psikers can realistically be expected to take damage in combat encounters (so tranquility won't be too OP) and their burst damage isn't too high.

Maybe but with Tanquility you can't get Psychosis(always pick this one)... And this mean now you have 2 interesting paths:

1. No crit build with lower AP(Tanquility) and Psi costs(with Psionic Mufflers) with better overrall survivability. In this case you even can skip electronics skill.
2. High crit build(Psychosis, Proximal Neuroscopic Filter, Stable Neural Amplifier and Survival Instincts) with higher Psi costs and lower overrall survivability(cuz your HP < 30% very often).

I didn't mean either of those comments to imply any need for changes; they were just observations.

Mb some things will be implemented in the future)
There are too many players who mentioned that psikers are too strong.

I know it's possible to 2-shot dreads (and execute crits can go up to 3.5k easily), but that's not the point. Unless Styg wants to nerf amplified energy weapons.

Why would he do this? =(
Critical Power is high level feat and designed(not solely but) for critical builds.
Amplified energy weapons are not being sold -> you need to invest in electronics heavily.

[Elhazzared]

I belive Mindless merely means that pure psi builds now are very weak.

The psi build has always rellied on the CC to get the survivabillity and now it cannot relly in CC. The moment you throw 2 CC abillities you are out of psi.

Frankly I don't see where would a psiker get survivabillity right now unless you actually make a it a hybrid where the Psi is merely used to throw some CC around and not your primary combat abillity.

Personally, I wouldn't play a psiker now if I would even play the game. 100 max psi and 50 points per stun is rather abusive.

[Mindless]

I belive Mindless merely means that pure psi builds now are very weak.

No, just telling that the psikers are not overpowered as hell. It's a matter of taste =)

Personally, I wouldn't play a psiker now if I would even play the game. 100 max psi and 50 points per stun is rather abusive.

I thought this way at first but in the practice it's not so bad.

[Elhazzared]

I dunno, I didn't found the psikers overpowered before. In fact I found sniper and grenades far better and still used assault rifles for a good burst up close if necessary.

Now I find the pure psikers completly meh. Usually you open with as much CC as possible to try and stop as many enemies. After the first 2 CC thrown, you won't throw any more CC during the combat. With no other means of survivabillity aside the CC I don't see psikers being a viable choice... Maybe they will do well in the first missions but as it goes on and gets harder however they don't get any better at CC. Seems very sketchy to me.

[VaeliusNoctu]

I have a question if i understud the PSI ability description in WIKKI right i can even do mostly successfull CCs with even 3 Willpower. Depends the successrate from CC Effects now realy only on the Skilllevel from the PSI ability. For what is willpower now?

[Greep]

Is that against the same level or mismatched levels tho epeli?  I haven't tested high will builds yet in this version.

Edit: Misunderstood the cc question.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Aaahh high will means higher Effective Skilllevel so higher success rate for say we Fear and mental. So i can invest in Will or must Invest massive skillpoints in the Thought Control e.g.

So its for a pure PSI Important have high will to spare Skillpoints and for a Hybrid 3-4 Will is enough.

I got it?

Atm i have 150 with my main character and hits against the most targets, whats you Expirience?

[UnLimiTeD]

Could someone maybe sum up the course of the thread so far?
I got tired on early page 5 with all those sidebattles about.... stuff.

The one thing I read in actual feedback so far that I could agree on in my tired state is that, in the early game, PSI is essentially an infinite resource and that kinda feels bad.