Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13

[Fenix]

Can I have somehow at same time old stable and new beta? Through Steam.

[TheAverageGortsby]

• DC mindreading will now take into account the number of killed Faceless, which will have negative effects of varying degrees depending on that number; however, kills during certain story-related events where combat is unavoidable will not be counted

Meant to ask about this - will Faceless-controlled robots (like those plasma walkers and kamikaze bots south of Rail Crossing) count toward the total of "Faceless killed"?  Or is it just the Faceless people?  Might make a difference as to how certain problems get solved  ;)

[Sykar]

Has anyone here who plays a stealth character on Dominating being able to handle the new Death Stalkers? They are the bane of my existence even at level 14.

[mattu]

They're very dangerous. So far I've only run into them in a couple of places. In one place I was able to beat them (there were, I think, 4, yikes) thanks to a good environment for fighting. In another it jumped me instantly upon entering the zone (I was in stealth, but with these guys I might as well not be), killed me before I could act, and I was like, nope, don't actually have to go this way.

I have kind of avoided places that would normally harbor crawlers since then.

I'm sure there will be situations later where I will be forced to fight more than one at a time, which . . . won't be easy. I am both looking forward to this and determined to put it off as long as I can. 

[destroyor]

I think Death Stalkers should be weaken a bit. As a CON 3, 0 dodge char I don't see any good option dealing w/ them without cheesing them with quick tinkering + bear traps. A single strike from a Death Stalkers and I'm already down to 20% health. Even with doctor's belt, irongut, antidote, adv health hypo it's very easy to be trap into an unwinnable situation. Caltrops, incendiary grenades, and flares helps but it requires foreknowledge so that's bad.

I don't know if I'm having really bad luck but I can't seem to locate a good quality plasma discharger (nothing higher than 11x), and good paddings (especially high-den, nothing higher than 10x) for leather armor. I unlocked every shop (except foundry secret shop) before DC and been doing numerous merchant runs. Are you guys having trouble locating high quality crafting components as well?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Are you guys having trouble locating high quality crafting components as well?

I'm not quite as far in as you are (you're probably much better than I am so you likely don't die as much =D ) but I'm finding gear in the low-100s range quite often.  Still haven't unlocked the Institute, Oligarch faction, or the Protectorate/Free Drones merchants but it's looking like a few dozen points in merchant might make a big difference.  At least in Foundry, and on Blaine, the unlocked items are often much better than the default inventory.   In the past, it was mostly just "more, not different" for passing Mercantile checks, but with the new stuff it feels like - and this is admittedly a very small sample size - Mercantile unlocks "more, and better" stuff now.  105 effective Mercantile, if that matters.

[destroyor]

Unfortunately there's not enough skill for this char to invest in merchantile.

[Hazard]

I think Death Stalkers should be weaken a bit. As a CON 3, 0 dodge char I don't see any good option dealing w/ them without cheesing them with quick tinkering + bear traps. A single strike from a Death Stalkers and I'm already down to 20% health. Even with doctor's belt, irongut, antidote, adv health hypo it's very easy to be trap into an unwinnable situation. Caltrops, incendiary grenades, and flares helps but it requires foreknowledge so that's bad.

IMHO, foreknowledge requirement in a game as massive and intricate as Underrail isn't a bad thing, at least if we're speaking from an ironman/minimal reloading standpoint, and especially if the selected difficulty level is Dominating. Now, whether or not Death Stalkers are too difficult to beat in general I can't say, seeing as I've only encountered them on Hard with a tin can rifleman build, but what I do know for sure is that their stealth skill is absolutely crazy. With 531 detection (level 22, PER 15, +91% Motion Tracking NV Goggles) I couldn't spot them before they initiated combat. The NV wasn't on, though, so that could have made a big difference.

Edit: Speaking of Mercantile, I've also been wondering if it might actually be worth it to raise the skill to 45 for Free Drones/Protectorate merchants, or even 55 for the Oculus one. But affording that is difficult even for a tin can rifleman crafter, since I already have Persuasion.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Now, whether or not Death Stalkers are too difficult to beat in general I can't say

The first fight I had with them, three of them in a smallish room, was ridiculous.  I'm trying not to rely on savescumming, so I basically do the same thing every time I get to a door: hit Premeditation, let it tick to 5 seconds, enter turn-based, open the door.  If it looks clear, walk in, select (but don't cast) Force Field, run it around to see if it indicates any occupied squares.  Cancel FF, step back outside, throw molotov just inside, use Premeditation on a fireball of lightning, or if there's a large group of humans instead use the "I win" button (Premed, LoC, Bilocation) and drop the force field to lock them all in while an army of Doppelgangers kicks the crap out of the unfortunate burning souls.  Anyway, barely managed the fight against the Death Stalkers, then forgot about the new debuff and used a health hypo, which immediately killed me 

Tell you what, though, I waste *a lot* of molotovs trying to stay safe

[MirddinEmris]

I found Yell to be a pretty decent feat for getting enemies out of stealth along with putting slight debuff on them. My knife user (that i lovingly call Jack the Ripper) is certainly enjoying being able to do so without using consumables.

[Sykar]

I think Death Stalkers should be weaken a bit. As a CON 3, 0 dodge char I don't see any good option dealing w/ them without cheesing them with quick tinkering + bear traps. A single strike from a Death Stalkers and I'm already down to 20% health. Even with doctor's belt, irongut, antidote, adv health hypo it's very easy to be trap into an unwinnable situation. Caltrops, incendiary grenades, and flares helps but it requires foreknowledge so that's bad.

I don't know if I'm having really bad luck but I can't seem to locate a good quality plasma discharger (nothing higher than 11x), and good paddings (especially high-den, nothing higher than 10x) for leather armor. I unlocked every shop (except foundry secret shop) before DC and been doing numerous merchant runs. Are you guys having trouble locating high quality crafting components as well?

I think they should appear less often. Also their stealth detection is ridiculous they start hunting me as soon as I am anywhere close to them but I do not see them coming at all despite having 10 Perception, Paranoia and 63% stealth detection goggles.

[hilf]

On the positive side, the diminishing returns make getting extremely high quality super steel less important for infused leathers. You get to craft infused stuff around ql 100-120 fairly easily, 130 with some effort and that's how it is with most other components.

Last time i played Deep Caverns threw ~160 quality components at me.
With Mercantile just above 100 i saw q147 Seeker Lenses, i assume it's also possible for armor components.

Besides, nerfing endgame light armors in a game with such damage explosion is rather strange.

And being no longer able to savescam animal skin loot quality does not help either

[TheAverageGortsby]

Last time i played Deep Caverns threw ~160 quality components at me.

Yeah but DC is just strange and offputting.  You get all the best quality gear there, but you can't access your housing where your +skill buff is so you probably can't make use of that really high-end stuff.  Basically everything about the design of Deep Caverns sabotages your character build, unless you know in advance what to expect and build to it.  That's Bad Design 101.

You're absolutely right that there's high-quality stuff all over DC.  I just feel like it's not reasonable to expect to rely on that stuff for crafting since only very few builds will have the skill to hit those thresholds without the housing bonus, so ultimately you just end up with a bunch of stuff to play with when you get back from visiting Tchort.  If you do

[Hazard]

Speaking of Deep Caverns... Styg, does game balance/difficulty go totally down the shitter if the Expansion content is played after DC? On one hand, I'd like to get my hands on all the highest quality materials in DC in preparation for the Expansion, but on the other hand, it would also be nice if Black Sea wasn't a total walk in the park.

[destroyor]

player who are not getting the expansion should not be able to beat dominating difficulty with a dodge+evasion centric build?

Sorry, mate, but that sounds a bit like bull. You can get evasion and dodge pretty high on a dodge+evasion centric  build, so high, in fact, that on Hard difficulty with such build i don't even use any boosters like jumping beans because i already have more than twice in defense skills than most (or all) enemies have in offense skills. +30% is not such a radical change that it can make those builds obsolete. Though i imagine that it will push a point where you reach you effective ceiling further down the line and make a start more difficult.

My 0 dodge max evasion char is not at the end game yet. We'll see how things work once I reach the pre-DC elevator fight.

Well just did the elevator fight, at evasion 181 (Level 25, 7 AGI, max evasion skill, wearing infused pig leather tabi, padded infused rathound leather armor, 15% armor penalty) I can say dodge/evasion build received a slight but noticeable nerf at dominating difficulty. Previously on hard, version 1.0.2.x, with a very similar setup (higher dodge/evasion bonus from infused leather) I'm pretty much safe from almost all ranged attack. This time around I would get hit occasionally. One thing of note is my char was killed at full health by a burst (shield was down from other damage) from Faceless which never happened before.

Are dodge/evasion builds still viable at dominating difficulty at version 1.0.3.x? Yes. Did it also received a noticeable nerf? Also yes.