Chance to miss cap / Evasion / Dodge

[Ragshak]

I play with melee character. From time to time I do like to grab a pistol and shoot here and there. I see that without training my close range chance to hit versus end game enemies is capped at 40% and it doesnt go any lower.
Now I wonder how this work versus my character. I do have maxed Dodge and Evasion at each level, Nimble trait and 10 Agillity + Evasive M. trait and pack of drugs.

BUT if enemies chance to hit is also capped at 40% I don't see a point in so heavy points invested in Dodge/Evasion.

Please clarify, is enemies minimal chance to hit is also capped 40%. For long time I though that Evasive M. trait is broken, because even with huge MP points from Sprint and 10 Agillity and all this converted to insane Evasion bonus I didn't experience any difference with Evasive M. turned on or off. And all this experience could be true if indeed the lowest optimal range possible chance to hit is capped at 40%.

[Ragshak]

Thank you.

[Bruno]

Just for clarification:
If someone fires a weapon at max range, in pitch black darkness, with 0 skill, unfocused/move-and-fire penalties, at an enemy with great evasion, they still have 10% chance to hit??

[MirddinEmris]

This is actually one of the several subtle ways game makes melee worse than ranged.

First of all, dodge can reduce you chances to hit by a larger amount compared to evasion. Second, there are plenty of ranged weapon components (like scope and laser sight) and modifiers (like Luger's bonus to precision) that melee doesn't posess. Of course there is a third one, not so subtle, Burst mechanic, which doesn't really need any explanation.

[Bruno]

That's right. However the minimum hit chance is mostly irrelevant in normal gameplay, unlike the maximum. Having very high evasion and forcing enemy snipers to move is probably the only way for real hit chances to drop down to 10%. Maybe also if you're in a really good position against assault rifle wielders.

I also recently updated http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Precision with an overview of the calculation order without going into details of every modifier.

Got to applaud your work with the Wiki. It is coherent and easy to navigate, and completely vital if you want to know a bit about how the game works.

Edit; One thing I always wonder about, how on earth do you know your hit/miss chances with a throwing net??

[MirddinEmris]

Hmm, true. But dodge has to play a bigger role because melee combat is simpler than ranged, even if melee weapons had plethora of additive precision modifiers like ranged weapons.

Not sure what you mean by "simpler". My guess is that melee has less factors affecting accuracy. True, but also not exactly. One of the biggest factors of the raged accuracy, light, i easily circumvented by NVG or even some molotovs/flares. So, as a result, ranged user has less demand for accuracy overall, meaning less demand for primary attribute (Perception).

For example, while i usually don't go lower than 15-16 on Str/Dex for melee builds, i can easily go as low as 10 Per for most of the ranged builds. It's much more noticeable with burst weapons than with single fire ones, though.

By melee being worse, did you mean that melee builds are weaker than ranged, or melee mobs are easier than ranged? I agree on the latter because there are so many ways to keep melee enemies off you. But even if melee builds are weaker than ranged, it's not because of hit chances.

Kinda both. But i was talking about player characters primarily. And yes, melee build ARE generally weaker than ranged. And yes, one of the reasons being accuracy mechanic. Not THE reason, mind you, just one of the little things that in combination makes the real difference.

Also, while melee is weaker than ranged, ironically weakest weapon in the game at the moment is regular pistols.

[hilf]

Miss a couple of 4 AP melee strikes? Or two bullets of a burst? Nobody cares. Miss two sniper shots? "RNG is rigged!!1"

Score 3 crits in a row with 10% chance? "Wow, i'm so powerful!".