How to make sniper rifles work?

[Mordre]

The problem I'm having is multiple enemies: I kill one from stealth, or maybe he even survives the shot, then I'm attacked by everybody else and I cannot take care of that with a sniper rifle.
So my question is: is it possible to make a sniper stealth build work without savescumming/changing areas or being aided by another weapon like an assault rifle?

[Tygrende]

The problem I'm having is multiple enemies: I kill one from stealth, or maybe he even survives the shot, then I'm attacked by everybody else and I cannot take care of that with a sniper rifle.

You just have to play to the sniper rifle's strengths. The most important thing is to keep the enemies as far away from you as possible. Traps, grenades, psi, a lot of movement points, re-stealthing, abilities like Kneecap Shot, doors, chain link fences, clever use of the terrain, killing isolated enemies first, etc. Get night vision goggles as fast as possible, otherwise use flares/molotovs/lure enemies into light. Stack crit and smart damage when you can (Sharpshooter, Critical Power, anatomically-aware scope, smart module, smart goggles, etc.) then crit chance (Recklessness, Ambush, seeker goggles, infused rathound leather, focus stims, etc.).

Things will get easier once you can craft a Spearhead rifle with rapid reloader since those can shoot twice per turn. Or if you find the Dragunov first.

So my question is: is it possible to make a sniper stealth build work without savescumming/changing areas or being aided by another weapon like an assault rifle?

You could technically play with only sniper rifles and be successful, but they really benefit from having another weapon in case you just can't get away or if you get hit with a STR debuff. I would consider using the barrel retractor mod in this case.

[Mordre]

Thank you for the reply, I'll study what utilities I can bring to help me win fights.
That said when making a stealthy sniper build you're supposed ( from what I understand ) to go for Special Attack damage buffs, not Critical hits, because Snipe isn't considered a crit. Therefore the crit perks are useless, especially recklessness which is best on a character with DPS
Or am I understanding things wrong?

[Tygrende]

That said when making a stealthy sniper build you're supposed ( from what I understand ) to go for Special Attack damage buffs, not Critical hits, because Snipe isn't considered a crit. Therefore the crit perks are useless

You're supposed to go for both, it's no wonder you're having trouble if you completly ignored crits. The only time those bonuses are mutually exclusive is when choosing between smart (special damage) and seeker (crit chance) goggles, otherwise you can have them all. Aimed Shot should be your bread and butter ability, with high crit and special damage bonuses it will kill almost every enemy if it hits and you can use it every 3rd turn. Snipe is something you use only at the beginning of combat and when you manage to restealth.

especially recklessness which is best on a character with DPS

With high crit damage, higher crit chance means higher chance your regular shots wil kill (most) enemies in one hit. I actually tend to go for seeker goggles later in the game as the damage is already so high another smart bonus would be overkill.

[Kendov]

What Tygrende said, basically. My own sneak sniper build consists of a powerful sniper rifle (Smart Bipod 12.7 Harbinger) which takes care of at least two enemies with Snipe and Aimed shot. Snipe gets a ridiculous bonus from Sneak (I'm usually somewhere ahead of 500% in endgame) and Aimed Shot, while not as powerful, is still more than enough to kill the next best thing. If by that point I do not expect to get another instakill or the enemy managed to get close, I switch to other weapons, in my case a Smart Rapid 8.6 Hornet. I also put a bunch of points into throwing, usually gas grenades, molotov and caltrops. all of those, especially when stacked, give massive damage to most enemies as well as vulnerabilities. if you want a pure sniper build, you'll have quite a hard time, but if I had to fight on a distance -and- on the move, I also crafted a Smart Rapid 7.62 Spearhead, it has a lot less penalties for close quarter and movement while maintaining the range, although its damage ends where my harbinger's begins, but it only costs 24 AP, so I can fire at least twice per turn. It has a natural crit ponus of 150 percent which makes for excellent Aimed Shots.

[Ploluap]

I think being able to kill isolated ennemies and restealth whenever possible is key for sneaky sniper builds.

I made a topic asking questions concerning this mechanic.

[Sykar]

Simple, add grenades and/or traps. You can also wield an SMG as a sidearm. Slightly more complex would be adding PSI and become a hybrid. You lose some burst but acquire immense burst, CC and utility.

[Zalpha]

How amazing is this: I had an idea for sniper rifles and came here to post it here on this site only to find this thread.

My idea is that sniper rifles bullets travel through targets and do half damage to the second target (enemy no.2), and quarter damage to the next (enemy no.3), and one eighth to next (enemy no.4) and so on.

This would make lining up shots a cool play style for a sniper and would be made easier while stealthed.

It is possible but unlikely that the following shots will kill of enemies unless you got a critical hit but it would provide some advantage and be a cool fun game mechanic.

It could be added as a perk but I think it could be a nice default mechanic for weapon.

[Sykar]

You can get two crits in one turn easily with Snipe and Aimed Shot. Snipe with a Spearhead can hit north of 1k and Aimed Shot probably around 700+ with standard ammo. Higher calibers can probably reach up to double of that amount. Your suggestion would make taking on groups brain dead.

[Gr8jak]

Ok i posted an smg build earlier and came to an idea of sniper build using smg, idea is using 8.6  steel cat and sniper, never played sniper so dunno is better spearhead + snipe and aimed shot, or 1 single mighty sniper for dominating difficulty. But on a note of smg u dont lose any dmg ,u actually  do same damage as 16 dex build or even more because of bigger perception and full auto + you are going to be using super steel because its awesome.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQgIBgMMAwbCh0YAAADCh8KEACUAOMKHfE9BZwAAAAAACU8kJkU5OxYVSTcBNUsz

This is the build (for spearhead version), order of feats wasnt taken into account. And u can dump 1 dexterity if u feel like using eel sandwiches and put in perception ofcourse. 8 dexterity u will have 3 bursts of 8.6 + constant reload = 21 bullets, 16 dex steel cat 8.6, 4 bursts, 5 bullet each = 20 bullets. But u have snipers, super steel and 12 or 13 perception

[paulkirikawa]

Ok i posted an smg build earlier and came to an idea of sniper build using smg, idea is using 8.6  steel cat and sniper, never played sniper so dunno is better spearhead + snipe and aimed shot, or 1 single mighty sniper for dominating difficulty. But on a note of smg u dont lose any dmg ,u actually  do same damage as 16 dex build or even more because of bigger perception and full auto + you are going to be using super steel because its awesome.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQgIBgMMAwbCh0YAAADCh8KEACUAOMKHfE9BZwAAAAAACU8kJkU5OxYVSTcBNUsz

This is the build (for spearhead version), order of feats wasnt taken into account. And u can dump 1 dexterity if u feel like using eel sandwiches and put in perception ofcourse. 8 dexterity u will have 3 bursts of 8.6 + constant reload = 21 bullets, 16 dex steel cat 8.6, 4 bursts, 5 bullet each = 20 bullets. But u have snipers, super steel and 12 or 13 perception

This is much like an assault rifle build with some tweak regaring the use of Super Steel Armor and SMG. To be honest, make it weaker than average AR build (using SR as a long-ranged backup). 7 Str/7 Dex/14 Per with Concentrated Fire would be stronger (or boost Agi to 10). If you're not going for Ironman, 30 point in Throwing is enough and you can make other skills more efficient. Metal build without Jaggernaut is also a strong loss, and why pick Nimble and Armor Sloping together? For 14% penalty metal boots? Passive defense score is seriously low for high armor penalty cans, not to mention 232 HP is a one-turn brain toast for high level Thought Control dudes.

My opinion:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQcHBgMPAwXChx4AAADCh8KHADsAO3V4O0N1AAAAAAAvATkmMBYVSjVJTzsCM0s

[paulkirikawa]

Well first of use sturdy vest, in smg playthrough was being with 380 hp same con, now ar being superior to smgs, i doubt that, this is max dmg smg, i dont think 16 dex focus smg build outdamages this 1, but yes you lose juggernaut. Nimble and armor slooping, so i can move a little and have some kind of use of stealth and evasion + suppresive fire. And i like throwing to be reliable, only thing missing is 130 biology which i dislike crafting in dc. You have 112 chemistry and 100 biology with workbench, they arent random numbers. Only weakness to this is coil spiders and doppelgangers, everything else... not rly. But i think every build struggles with smth, specially those 2. Wth 3 smg bursts u can knockout 3-4+ ppl in round, without adrenaline, how much can u knockout with ar, dont know never tried ar mid - late game.

Maybe you are right, I'm not 100% sure ARs are still superior than SMGs now but they are obviously powerful. There are burst compensation type (Hornet) and critical-focused type (Chimera), Concentrated Fire is devastating, even a disadvantage can enhance its damage output (I'm talking about accuracy loss when target beyond optimal range). Guns skill is the main damage modifier of all guns, and ARs have higher min & max base damage (same quality), higher optimal range so it's easy to clean a wider cone (you need to do closed quarter burst with SMGs) with a single burst fire (7 or 9 bullets) and you get Gun Rush from whatever got rekt under your caliber.
I've been on a 15+1Dex/10Agi/6Per Versatility SMG playthrough, Blitz is god.
I thought Sniper Rifles shall be back up by SMGs (if you don't use Psi) and ARs also can be back up by SRs. The range and damage type of your main weapon define your combat tactics, e.g. SR firing and AR burst are mutualy exclusive in one turn but you can do burst kill + Gun Rush burst + flashbang + next turn SR aimed shot, don't even need to be in 5 tiles with any foe, strategy may vary. For 15Dex/10Agi SMGer with low Per, Crowd control is the first priority and point blank burst is a must. I have godlike initiative, mollys, flashbang, taser, beartraps, Dirty Kick and even pneumatic incapacitation strike to reduce enemy's evasion to zero (an offset to my shitty guns skill), super speed, and don't need a Sniper Rifle as back up.

[Gr8jak]

Well first of use sturdy vest, in smg playthrough was being with 380 (232 + 148 sturdy vest quality) hp same con, now ar being superior to smgs, i doubt that, this is max dmg smg, i dont think 16 dex focus smg build outdamages this 1 (simple math 21 bullets and 4 more perception + reload in same turn vs 16 dex 20 bullets), but yes you lose juggernaut. Nimble and armor slooping, so i can move a little and have some kind of use of stealth and evasion + suppresive fire. And i like throwing to be reliable, only thing missing is 130 biology which i dislike crafting in dc. You have 112 chemistry and 100 biology with workbench, they arent random numbers. Only weakness to this is coil spiders and doppelgangers, everything else... not rly. But i think every build struggles with smth, specially those 2. Wth 3 smg bursts u can knockout 3-4+ ppl in round, without adrenaline, how much can u knockout with ar, dont know never tried ar mid - late game.
[/quote]

Now your link, lacks imho every aspect of survivability, no skinner feat, 3 con, no dodge..., I mean my build doesnt have dodge, but is full metal.

[Gr8jak]

6 perception and blitz .. 1 pony trick shot every 10 rounds that leaves u immobile, vs 13 perception and full auto as constant. Hmmm 7 perception = around 37-39 percent more dmg and accuracy, more than 1 extra burst every round which u dont have with bllitz u have it every 10 rounds...

[paulkirikawa]

Now your link, lacks imho every aspect of survivability, no skinner feat, 3 con, no dodge..., I mean my build doesnt have dodge, but is full metal.

I found that you are definitely right, even if I don't want to admit it.  I was annoyed with crawlers so long ago and got used to abuse beartrap anywhere & anytime...

6 perception and blitz .. 1 pony trick shot every 10 rounds that leaves u immobile, vs 13 perception and full auto as constant. Hmmm 7 perception = around 34 percent more dmg and accuracy, more than 1 extra burst every round which u dont have with bllitz u have it every 10 rounds...

I mostly use it for crowd controling, not damage output.