Requesting dex based, versatility SMG/energy pistol/melee build

[paulkirikawa]

Hi folks.
It seems that new Versatility feat can be a good choice for classical knifer/punchers to do some ranged damage, even extra CC from xbow, only need to invest some point to hit the requirement of important feats. Personally I'm interested in the feasibility of max dex high agi&int energy pistol/melee build.
My energy pistol knifer on 1.0.3.20 DOMINATING got smashed after entering DC due to ran out of batteries. Fungi needs full 50AP to deal each: stealthed approaching-taser-plasma pistol execute, and tchortlings are real hell, abused crawler poison caltrop just to pass some area. Also made mistakes for having only 14 dex, thrown 2 point in per and feats mainly supporting pistols, maxed melee but no fancy footwork, no cheap shots or expose weakness...158 quality steel combat knife helps little 'cause only electro bypasses mechanical DR%/DT.
I really want to finish the DOMINATING run w/ energy build and versatility gave me hope. GFW banned the underrail.info so I can't visit that build simulator directly (if you have no idea what GFW is, meh, you are lucky). Posted my consideration as follow so you can give me some advice/help me to kill this fragile imagination.

-base ability-
STR 3  (dump it)
DEX 10++++++ (I will pick Grenadier for CC, plus three-pointer for extra ranged-damage)
AGI 6 or 7 (Spec Ops and Sprint, or Hit&Run)
CON 3 (dump it, infused pig leather are far more better on DOMINATING)
PER 6 (Aimed Shot, Point Shot, Ambush, add Cooked Shot maybe?)
WIL 3 (dump it, if I want some magical help, imprint and cryostasis are still ok with 3 WIL)
INT 8 or 9 (High-technicalities, high bonus for crafting)
Low PER and guns skill may force my character to make closed combat, for another option I will down INT to 5, make 10 AGI for Blitz, more speed, reliable stealth and lifesaving initiative, but damage from energy pistol would become much lower.

-skills-
Melee: max (I need it to boost guns and sometimes it's powerful too. At lv25 effective skill score with 17 dex is 284, guns will be brought up to 170)
Guns: 70 (in early game, 25 for Point Shot, 35 for Cooked Shot. Boost to 70 for Execute after I got powerful plasma gun)
Throwing: make 107 effective, or max w/ Three-Pointer.
Dodge: dump it (dunno if it's right, I already did this w/ last playthrough 'cause I always have QT and tons of beartrap)
Evasion: max (same question w/ dodge since too many foes can one-hit me on this difficulty)
Stealth: max
Lockpicking: make 100 effective, it seems fairly easy.
Hacking: make 120 effective with high INT or totally dump it.
Pickpocketing: invest 40 or dump it, depends on requirement.
Traps: make 100 effective (abusing traps after QT nerf might be a little inconvenient, but cover every tile w/ explosives is still handy. 100 provides a relatively long period for enemy to detect them)
5 crafting skills: always need at least 120 effective Electronics for my killing phasers, other branch depends on INT number and requirement.
3 psi schools: dump it or 45 PK for imprint/40 meta for cryostasis. Premeditation is also doable, you can never get enough for CC.
Social: make 105 effective merchantile (with high INT, dump the others)

-Feats-
1. Aimed Shot & Versatility
2. Opportunist or Sure Step or Sprint
4. Quick Tinkering or Grenadier
6. Ambush or Premeditation
8. Point Shot or Spec Ops or Three-Pointer
10. Dirty Kick or Blitz
12. High-technicalities (exchange w/ something above if got powerful energy gun) or Execute
14. Critical Power
16. Fancy footwork (when having Blitz) or Cheap Shots
18. Power Management
20. some missed feat above or Practical Physicist
22. some missed feat above or Psychostatic Electricity (when having Premeditation) or Weaponsmith/Skinner/Clothier
24. some missed feat above
Oh, does Rapid Fire work with energy pistols? Never tried this.

-Equipment-
Seeker NVG (burst fire won't be buffed by smart lens, and knife/energy guns highly rely on crit)
Infused Rathound Leather Overcoat (high crit chance and stealth bonus, mediocre defence)
Infused Pig Leather Boots (around 60-100 extra health, real lifesaving, 30 bonus carry capacity)
Utility Belt or Doctor's Pouch
Efficient Low/Medium Frequency Shield Emitter (1000 capacity at least)
Shock Supersteel Combat Knife
Pneumatic Reinforced Infused Ancient Rathound Leather Gloves (thanks to Ploluap's suggestion)
Smart Amplified Electroshock Pistol
Smart Amplified Plasma Pistol
Efficient Amplified Laser Pistol

[Ploluap]

"My energy pistal knifer on 1.0.3.20 DOMINATING got smashed after entering DC due to ran out of batteries."

Did you pick pack rathound ? It helps a lot for stocking a lot of batteries.

COncerning your build i don't really understand it : you mention cooked shot but it's not in your list ; what will be your melee weapon of choice : knife or punch ? Are you planning to use melee only against weak enemies or a lot (i'm wondering because you're not picking a lot of melee feats)

Same for range : energy or SMG ? You seem too spreadout or it's just that i didn't understand.

I've done SMG/punch and SMG/knife before current patch and it was good (punch was better), mainly because SMG were OP and punch is super good except against heavy armor. Not sure how good it is with the last version.

[paulkirikawa]

"My energy pistal knifer on 1.0.3.20 DOMINATING got smashed after entering DC due to ran out of batteries."

Did you pick pack rathound ? It helps a lot for stocking a lot of batteries.

COncerning your build i don't really understand it : you mention cooked shot but it's not in your list ; what will be your melee weapon of choice : knife or punch ? Are you planning to use melee only against weak enemies or a lot (i'm wondering because you're not picking a lot of melee feats)

Same for range : energy or SMG ? You seem too spreadout or it's just that i didn't understand.

I've done SMG/punch and SMG/knife before current patch and it was good (punch was better), mainly because SMG were OP and punch is super good except against heavy armor. Not sure how good it is with the last version.

You're right, better dump that cooked brain idea. I used to prefer shock knife for weak foes (knife is good for crit, shocking is good for area damage), mostly light-armored human, spiders and spawns. But consider that spiders are immune to electricity, pneumatic infused glove shall be good, Fancy Footwork can be replaced by Combo.
If I pick Spec Ops and Grenadier, it would be better to concentrate on SMG with 10 AGI, take Commando instead of Execute, dunno whether the weakened burst still handy. W2C is powerful when dealing armored enemy but energy is super effective to almost all enemy on dominating. Maybe I should max guns, carry both SMG & plasma pistol and forget that Versatility thing.

[Reallyhairydave]

Since I saw the feat I've been trying to work out how best to use it, honestly it'd probably be better as a secondary weapon so my thoughts were primary sniper, secondary melee. That way you invest less points (snipers already have high strength) and get to waste less resources on almost dead opponents.

[paulkirikawa]

Since I saw the feat I've been trying to work out how best to use it, honestly it'd probably be better as a secondary weapon so my thoughts were primary sniper, secondary melee. That way you invest less points (snipers already have high strength) and get to waste less resources on almost dead opponents.

Oh, but sniper rifles suffer a heavy closed quarter penalty. Their optimal range seems mutually exclusive.

[harperfan7]

seeker goggles only affect ranged crit chances

[Ploluap]

Yes, in this game i find it super hard to use efficiently multiple types of weapon.

For most builds i think 1 main weapon type and one sub weapon type is the max you can afford.

So between SMG, Energy and melee i would advise you to pick only two (and choose between punch and knife).

SMG/Energy (not melee) as you suggest can probably be pretty good

[Shredded Cheddar]

I think versatility would be best used with either sledge + AR with 40 points in AR for full auto, or dex melee with pistols, with only 50 points for the basic pistol feats like rapid fire, point shot, aimed shot. It's best used on a build that's boosting it's primary attack stat to the full 16.

Unfortunately this passes up the best feat for AR which is commando, and melee dex builds / pistol builds are already starved for feats. IMO the best use of it would be on some kind of high strength juggernaut running sledgehammers, heavy armor, and an AR secondary when getting into melee range is impossible.

[harperfan7]

Having played a sledge juggernaut (with 5 int), yeah I really wish I could have had a sniper rifle in my off-hand.  Preferably the ones you can shoot twice.

Versatility seems more for ranged characters, seems to me.  I've seen several good examples so far:  dirty kick, cut-throat, crossbow + jackknife w/expose weakness. 

[paulkirikawa]

Mm-hmm, decided to try a SMG knifer.
7.62 micro-sharpnel w/ eviscerate seems promising against living boss enemies.

-base ability-
STR 3 
DEX 10++++++
AGI 10
CON 3
PER 6
WIL 3
INT 5

-skills-
Melee: max (Essential)
Guns: 50 (or 80 for commando)
Throwing: make 107 effective, or max w/ Three-Pointer.
Dodge & Evasion & Stealth: max
Lockpicking: make 100 effective, might suffer a little shortage.
Dump hacking and pickpocketing.
Traps: make 120 effective (on Normal you can disarm anyone's trap w/ 90 effective skill, but same skill on DOMINATING you could even trigger em)
5 crafting skills: 120 effective mechanics & tailoring for decent SMG and armor, 100 electronics for shield and cloaker, 45 chem for cryogas grenade (or 69 for Frag 'nade MKIV) and 50 bio for Focus Stim (or 80 for Bullhead)
Give up psi and social skill.

-Feats-
1. Sprint (or Opportunist) & Suppresive Fire
2. Interloper or Opportunist
4. Quick Tinkering or Grenadier
6. Cheap Shots or Ambush or Expose Weakness
8. Spec Ops
10. Versatility
12. Blitz
14. Eviscerate
16. Taste for Blood
18. Critical Power
20. Expertise or Commando
22. Fancy Footwork or Recklessness
24. Three-Pointer or some missed feat above

-Equipment-
Seeker NVG (maybe Shaded Supersteel Helmet)
Infused Rathound Leather Overcoat (high crit chance and stealth bonus, mediocre defence) and Infused Siphoner Leather Overcoat (high defense & stealth bonus)
Infused Antient Rathound Leather Tabi Boots (for MP and defense, reduce melee AP cost)
Bullet Strap Belt or Doctor's Pouch
Efficient Low/Medium Frequency Shield Emitter (600 capacity at least)
Shock Serrated Supersteel Knife
Ripper's Glove (When it's hard to hit with SMG)
7.62mm Muzzled Jaguar Tactical with Micro-sharpnel Rounds (more landed shot, more bleeding wounds)
K&H MP6 (spamming 9mm acid & W2C bullets on heavy armored enemy)

[Ploluap]

looks good

[paulkirikawa]

Well, feeling good with current build, just dominated arena and can't wait to kill some cultists. Gave up ambush 'cause I need to do closed quarter shooting.
Expose Weakness is good, Root Soda is super GOOD and Quick Tinkering is simply God. First turn (usually started on my side), get enough CC through melee and throwing. Second, deal devastating damage through tungsten (or JHP) storm. Third (if combat have been keeping), rinse and repeat or run to next corner and drop a bear trap.
Micro-sharpnel is not as good as I thought, and Eviscerate is no match for Commando due to knife's poor base damage. Maybe I should get Cut-throat instead, for next playthrough.
Since I invested 80 point in guns, Versatility shall be picked only when effective melee score beyonds 166, around lv20 or 22?

[Ploluap]

Yes Knife always feels a bit underwhelming compared to other weapons.

Currently trying a pure knife/throwing build and it's quite hard, i'll probably pick sure step and quick pocket (already have packrathound) so i'll be able to use more special tactics.

Btw you are playing the last experimental version ? Which means SMG are still good after the "smart" nerf ?

[ciox]

Knives are not bad, all about using electroshock+crit since unlike combat gloves you can make a serrated knife with 130% critical damage bonus, then get Cheap Shots and Critical Power to raise it up to 300% for 400% total damage, then just find ways to raise your critical chance of which there are plenty.

[paulkirikawa]

Yes Knife always feels a bit underwhelming compared to other weapons.

Currently trying a pure knife/throwing build and it's quite hard, i'll probably pick sure step and quick pocket (already have packrathound) so i'll be able to use more special tactics.

Btw you are playing the last experimental version ? Which means SMG are still good after the "smart" nerf ?

It's still good (it used to be overwhelming) because W2C/JHP is good for any situation.
I'm playing on classic EXP mode, savescummed to loot decent SMG (to be honest, reach 20 chem/bio to assassinate Mordre, he always carries some real high-end gear, like a SMG that requires 60 guns skill) and reach Lv6 ASAP (for Expose Weakness). Once I saw W2C blueprint in Blaine's shop I know it's show time. You can collect tons of Tungsten and Graphite in Junkyard, but with 25% selling price, manage some stashes to catch all possible trading chance is mandatory.
Dayum, I have even saw Blaine sells shield emitter blueprint before I entered Depot A. Have you seen it on previous versions?