Author Topic: Feats and items improvements  (Read 8940 times)

Sykar

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Feats and items improvements
« on: January 26, 2019, 04:21:04 pm »
In my opinion there are items and feats which provide such negligible benefits that they could be merged with something and it would be for the better. Personally I think the following should be merged:

Goggles +1 perception: Imho +1 perception is generally useless and almost every build using goggles is either using detection, crit chance or smart module. The +1 perception is not even situational good since you either have high per or you dump it to 3.
My suggestion would be that all goggle types provide +1 perception and get rid of the base +1 goggles. The benefit is so negligible it might as well merged or completely removed if that is deemed too strong which considering the pitiful benefit of +1 perception is doubtful.

Hammerer pistols: Atrocious minimum damage. It is so bad that the damage output becomes so unreliable that many prefer the much more stable Neo Luger for example. Something has to be done with this pistol time.

Snooping: I am not sure what to do with it. Like with goggles you either have high per for ranged characters or you dump it to 3 and use detection goggles to find traps. Secrets are nice but usually just offer some extra loot and oddities, with a rare easter egg here and there.

Ninja Looter/Burglar: These two feats are rarely if ever taken, at best as flavor feats. Either they need massive improvements or just merge them to a single perk and name it "Master Thief" or something like that.

Gun Nut: Rarely seen it. The benefit is 7.5% average damage but it can be as little as 0%. I see no reason as to why this could not be something like a flat damage increase.

Heavy Punch: Most special attacks usually either cut AP cost for comparable damage but reduced accuracy, give increased crit chance, etc. This feat is supposedly there to help overcoming damage resistances I guess but it just is very unappealing even on unarmed characters.

Mental Subversion: Just takes far too long to stack and is hardly noticable if at all. Could be merged with Cerebral Trauma.

Neurologist: Somewhat underwhelming. Could improve PSI efficiency a little as well maybe.

Hypothermia. Not very useful. The idea of reduced con is only really feasable in prolonged fights to reduce the effectiveness of enemy healing but the problem is the higher the difficulty the less you want fights to go long because you can get wiped off the map fast. Doubly true on Autistic difficulty.

ciox

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 05:37:10 pm »
Nothing new here, we've been complaining about this stuff for a long while.  :(

One particularly elegant way to deal with the "excessive damage spread" problem would be to have some kind of ability that lets you do guaranteed maximum damage,  under certain conditions. That way weapons with a wide damage spread can stay as they are, and their spread can even be an asset.

http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Bless

Fenix

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 06:55:49 pm »
Disagree with:
Hammerer - it's player choice, someone like it.
Sooping - very, very useful feat.
Heavy Punch - I killed Dreadnoughts with it!
Neurologist is the only sourse for increasing psi-pool for Psychosis users.
I guess Gun Nut could be useful in strange runs where you don't take combat feats - these are exist.

Hypoteria - never used it, but I guess someone could use it for though fights.

The rest probably is true, but...

Sykar

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2019, 03:52:22 am »
Disagree with:
Hammerer - it's player choice, someone like it.
Sooping - very, very useful feat.
Heavy Punch - I killed Dreadnoughts with it!
Neurologist is the only sourse for increasing psi-pool for Psychosis users.
I guess Gun Nut could be useful in strange runs where you don't take combat feats - these are exist.

Hypoteria - never used it, but I guess someone could use it for though fights.

The rest probably is true, but...

Hammerer: Tell me who uses it? I read and watched a lot from other players and everybody seems to have the same opinion about it, awful damage spread which makes the pistol far too unreliable. It is possible, especially during early game, that a crit can deal less damage than a maximum rolled normal hit which is sad to see when you see your Aimed Shot does something like 20 damage only to hit normally for 35+ on the next hit.

Snooping: If one is generous, then one could call it a luxury feat. The reality is that it hardly does anything if your perception is dumped to 3 since most secrets need 8+ per early on and later, starting in Depot A already, you need at least 10 or 11, meaning to get actual benefit from it your perception has to be around 7-8 and never raised or the benefit is completely superseded by perception anyway.

Heavy Punch: I did mention that the obvious use is supposed to be to overcome damage resistance. This is very rarely helpful and I see no reason to leave it in such a niche feat since against everything else you will hit for less in total.

Neurologist: What Psychosis needs is to get a revamp so it increases PSI costs of abilities which can crit only, thanks for reminding on that one. That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient. In the end all it does give you additional 15 PSI at the start of the combat and once in a while you get full benefit from a PSI booster when you are a bit above 25 PSI. It is only really useful if you run with Fast Metabolism, which is a good feat, but otherwise the benefit is exceedingly marginal is and is therefore firmly in the luxury category, at best.

Gun Nut: Again a feat you take if you run out of feats to take which on Autistic is rather unlikely and again there will be plenty of damage rolls where it has done nothing. I do not see why it could not be just a flat damage multiplier instead of just being tacked on maximum damage.

Hypothermia: You have never taken it, yet you think it "might" be useful to someone? Who exactly? Cryogenic Induction is superior in ever way. Not only does it give you an extra round of slow and freeze you can also finish off enemies so it synergies greatly with Psychosis builds and PSI Snipers.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 04:21:59 am by Sykar »

Firozo

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2019, 09:27:52 am »
Disagree with heavy punch... it used in pneumatic reinforced gloves (with expertise) to deal huge mechanical damage...but I dont know TfB better or worse this

Fenix

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 02:51:34 am »
Quote
That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient.

Imagine you playing no craft run and just cant craft psi beetle vest. That's when oyu need Neurologist.

Sykar

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 06:09:15 am »
Quote
That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient.

Imagine you playing no craft run and just cant craft psi beetle vest. That's when oyu need Neurologist.

I can imagine a lot of things. Still does not change the fact that Neurologist is at best lackluster.

brobotics

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 03:28:13 pm »
not every feat needs to be super viable, dude

Sykar

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 05:50:51 am »
not every feat needs to be super viable, dude

No, but it just needs to be viable in just more than extremely exotic niche situations or not be outright useless.

Fenix

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2019, 06:42:35 pm »
Quote
the best is the enemy of good
is a Russian proverb.

`louse`

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2019, 08:23:15 pm »
To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 08:25:41 pm by `louse` »

Sykar

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 05:21:00 pm »
To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?

Apart from the ones I mentioned?

Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.

Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.

Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.

Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.

`louse`

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 06:12:16 pm »
To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?

Apart from the ones I mentioned?

Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.

Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.

Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.

Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.

These skills are not useless but rarely applicable.

Sure Step: use with mutants (puddles of acid are very annoying)
Disassemble: for components
Dirty Kick: I use it myself, because I play without crafting. (Of course the Taser is better in terms of cooldown and robots)

The only feat is Versatility... But I agree that it is better when choosing to take more necessary feats.

Sykar

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 07:59:23 pm »
To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?

Apart from the ones I mentioned?

Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.

Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.

Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.

Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.

These skills are not useless but rarely applicable.

Sure Step: use with mutants (puddles of acid are very annoying)
Disassemble: for components
Dirty Kick: I use it myself, because I play without crafting. (Of course the Taser is better in terms of cooldown and robots)

The only feat is Versatility... But I agree that it is better when choosing to take more necessary feats.

Yeah you can make up any kind of excuse to "justify" terrible feats. That does not make them any less terrible and outright useless 99.9% of the time. As to your arguments.

Sure Step: Or just wait, or get some boots with acid protection or just walk through and heal/bandage up afterwards. Even on Autistic difficulty you will swim in meds.
Disassemble: Or just buy new components which are not compromised by 10%. In fact if I want to build something new I want HIGHER quality components. There are very few components I'd even bother to disassemble an item in the first place like Rapid Reloaders.
Dirty Kick: As you pointed out Taser is better. As are flashbangs. As are caldrops, especially poisoned ones. So are bear traps. None of these need a lot of skill points or feats to be effective.

`louse`

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Re: Feats and items improvements
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 08:34:18 pm »
Quote from: Sykar
Yeah you can make up any kind of excuse to "justify" terrible feats. That does not make them any less terrible and outright useless 99.9% of the time. As to your arguments.

Sure Step: Or just wait, or get some boots with acid protection or just walk through and heal/bandage up afterwards. Even on Autistic difficulty you will swim in meds.
Disassemble: Or just buy new components which are not compromised by 10%. In fact if I want to build something new I want HIGHER quality components. There are very few components I'd even bother to disassemble an item in the first place like Rapid Reloaders.
Dirty Kick: As you pointed out Taser is better. As are flashbangs. As are caldrops, especially poisoned ones. So are bear traps. None of these need a lot of skill points or feats to be effective.

About puddles of acid: I wear other boots and cannot change them for every situation. Sometimes puddles too much to walk through and can`t heal  in combat.
Dirty Kick: flashbangs - incapacitate effect. Not stun. Caldrops, bear traps, taser - for crafting ( I don't use it) And what is left over?
Disassemble: It is better to ask those who use it...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 09:21:27 pm by `louse` »