An Average Explanation of Outstanding Psi Builds

[TheAverageGortsby]

Do you not have the expansion?  Your original post about building a psi character mentioned that you wanted to give the expansion a go, but every time you link to a build you're thinking about using, you link to a build that isn't using Expedition.

If you do have Expedition, then you should probably reconsider your build progression since there'll be another psi school for you to consider, several new feats, and an increased level cap.

For what it's worth, with 10+6 Will, 10 Int, 6 Con, and 5 Per, you will still have enough skill points to get all your crafting, lockpicking, hacking, persuasion, mercantile, and intimidation thresholds while maxing at least two of the schools of psi.  You don't need Dex or Agi for your build.  Very minimal investments ultimately are wasted, because if you can succeed with 15 points in a skill, you can succeed with 0 points in a skill.  It's the same reason you never want a stat to be 4; if you can succeed with a stat of 4, you can succeed with a stat of 3 and reclaim that stat point to put somewhere else.

Regardless, ultimately, if you want to build to your own liking, then you should do that and play.  Don't get so mired in the theorycrafting that you never get around to playing the game 

[DunderFail]

Do you not have the expansion?  Your original post about building a psi character mentioned that you wanted to give the expansion a go, but every time you link to a build you're thinking about using, you link to a build that isn't using Expedition.

If you do have Expedition, then you should probably reconsider your build progression since there'll be another psi school for you to consider, several new feats, and an increased level cap.

For what it's worth, with 10+6 Will, 10 Int, 6 Con, and 5 Per, you will still have enough skill points to get all your crafting, lockpicking, hacking, persuasion, mercantile, and intimidation thresholds while maxing at least two of the schools of psi.  You don't need Dex or Agi for your build.  Very minimal investments ultimately are wasted, because if you can succeed with 15 points in a skill, you can succeed with 0 points in a skill.  It's the same reason you never want a stat to be 4; if you can succeed with a stat of 4, you can succeed with a stat of 3 and reclaim that stat point to put somewhere else.

Regardless, ultimately, if you want to build to your own liking, then you should do that and play.  Don't get so mired in the theorycrafting that you never get around to playing the game 

No i don't have the expansion. I think I meant I'd give the expansion a go if I could complete the base game, but that's looking less and less likely to happen anytime soon...

Taking your advice, I made this build.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMDAwYFEAoAAAAAAABISHkAAEtLACRLwofCh8KHMSRAKDYrPxQqBQpkIT0cLidQ

Able to craft everything I want and pass all checks in the base game, as well as max out psi abilities. I dumped leftover points into stealth cause I think that comes in handy time-to-time.

I'd really like to take the points in CON and dump them into DEX so I can level lockpick more efficiently and perhaps go into pickpocket or traps, but the lack of health was making me pull my hair out. That and I' want to have lockpick 50 by the time I get to the GMS Compound with all the sentry bots, as otherwise its a massive pain in the ass.

Honestly, theory-crafting is more fun than the game right now. Even on normal its absolutely punishing.

EDIT:

Here is a 3 CON 6 DEX build I made:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMGAwMFEAoAAAAAAAAXSF1NAEtLACRLwofCh8KHMSRAKDYrPxQqBQpkIT0cLic

[TheAverageGortsby]

No i don't have the expansion. I think I meant I'd give the expansion a go if I could complete the base game, but that's looking less and less likely to happen anytime soon...

 I' want to have lockpick 50 by the time I get to the GMS Compound with all the sentry bots, as otherwise its a massive pain in the ass.

The Expedition expansion is both add-on and add-in.  There's stuff available from the first few minutes of the game, so there is absolutely no reason to feel that you need to finish the base game before getting the expansion.  Obviously, if you want to, then you should do what you want.

GMS is super easy to get through as psi.  Just make sure you're level 6 so you have Premeditation and you'll find you have all sorts of crazy shenanigans at your disposal.  If for some reason you want to be extra double safe, then before you go to GMS, go into the Underpassages (that's the area accessible by heading out the SGS gate and going down the stairs in that first map with the rathounds patrolling around) and look around for a bit.  You'll find someone wearing a tac vest.  Even if the RNG gives you a really crappy tac vest, any tac vest makes the GMS robots easy-peasy.  30 effective Lockpick skill is plenty for GMS.  What you really want is 50 effective Hacking for the tasty psi-mushroom hoards.

[DunderFail]

What is the rational for dumping DEX and AGI completely in favor of CON? Its nice not being completely made of glass but as a Psi user you are still pretty fragile only now you shoot second, third or fourth, which has often meant insta-death for me. Nothing makes you want to rage-quit more than zoning in and instantly being gibbed by some Ironheads.

[TheAverageGortsby]

What is the rational for dumping DEX and AGI completely in favor of CON? Its nice not being completely made of glass but as a Psi user you are still pretty fragile only now you shoot second, third or fourth, which has often meant insta-death for me. Nothing makes you want to rage-quit more than zoning in and instantly being gibbed by some Ironheads.

It's very hard (though not impossible, with one or maybe two exceptions) to avoid getting hit in UnderRail, so you're going to take some damage.  That's doubly true early on, when you're learning the game.  You'll step on mines, you'll fail to position yourself correctly, you'll put a frag grenade at your own feet.  It'll happen.  So it's nice to have enough health, especially for a first play-through, to survive those little mistakes.

If you aren't going first in combat (with two, or maybe three exceptions) then that's because you are letting the combat come to you, rather than starting it on your own terms.  You should almost always be starting combat manually so that you go first.  When you start combat manually, your initiative doesn't matter, just like starting combat from stealth.  So you don't need Dex or Agi, because you don't need initiative, and your Dex and Agi fed skills are low-investment anyway.

You've said you want to play a character with stealth.  Why wouldn't you stealth up before zoning into a new area?  Caution is what keeps you alive reliably.

[duel525]

Thanks for posting this. I used this to shape my first run to level 30 with a psychosis build. I did wonder if it was worth it to put some points into firearms or throwables for something to use when you're out of psi and cooldowns to restore it. A filler action so to speak. Going to be going through my second run to catch things I didn't do before.

[slyguy65]

I do not recommend advanced psi empathy for light/medium armored mages.
On paper it sounds ok, but in practice it is not worth it IMO.

With the health cut I feel like I am back in the early game where everything would chunk the shit out of me. And the only pay off I can feel is the fact that I don't need to use psi boosters as much....when I already had a 100+ to burn so ya....

The benefit is limited by your action points in all honesty. Even WITH psi acceleration AND the feat for that. Sure you feel like you aren't running out of psi every other turn as easily but its just not worth it. With the philosophy + psi headband crafting feat it felt fine. With advanced psi, it feels like I have a good amount of psi which is...fine, but the cost of being 1HKO with my armor that made me feel like a tank just before the feat is NOT worth the trade off.

[TheAverageGortsby]

I do not recommend advanced psi empathy for light/medium armored mages.
On paper it sounds ok, but in practice it is not worth it IMO.

With the health cut I feel like I am back in the early game where everything would chunk the shit out of me.

Full psi builds have a ludicrous number of options to just not get hit.  If you're getting hit hard regularly, then you're not playing psi well.  It's really that simple.  Little hits here and there, sure; but you should only be getting hit when you want to, if you're playing full psi.

Hide behind a force field; set up mirror images and cryo shield; debuff enemy hit chances so they have no prayer of landing a shot; slow and chill melee enemies so they can't get to you; AoE incapacitate/fear/enrage enemy groups; stun organics and robotics alike; lay down powerful stunning traps; make yourself immune to fire damage; make yourself immune to all damage.

There's so much.  Your HP pool is just a curiosity piece once you know how to play psi reasonably well.  And once you begin taking advantage of Thermodynamicity, you'll be able to trigger 8, 10, even 12 abilities a turn.  You'll want all the psi cost reduction you can get, at that point.

I know you mostly show up to troll the forums both here and on reddit with stories of your own failures, but if your concern is genuine, then know it's because you haven't learned how to play psi well yet.  Keep at it; there's plenty of advice out there to get you up to speed.

[Sykar]

To any newcomer looking for PSI builds, this thread is pretty much obsolete now with the massive changes to PSI.

[TheAverageGortsby]

O, ye of little faith.

Updated post now for current experimental branch psi mechanics.

[DerivativeZero]

Excellent outline on the new PSI mechanics!

Looks a bit like the most useful new PSI ability is "Throw a grenade" and "Lay bear traps" ;(

[HulkOSaurus]

Excellent outline on the new PSI mechanics!

Looks a bit like the most useful new PSI ability is "Throw a grenade" and "Lay bear traps" ;(

I've always preferred and played true psi hybrids. The best Psi skill is, indeed, ''Throw a grenade'', but only when its follow by big Pyrokinetic fireballs.

[DerivativeZero]

Excellent outline on the new PSI mechanics!

Looks a bit like the most useful new PSI ability is "Throw a grenade" and "Lay bear traps" ;(

I've always preferred and played true psi hybrids. The best Psi skill is, indeed, ''Throw a grenade'', but only when its follow by big Pyrokinetic fireballs.

I think for hybrid builds (which I also like dearly), this is fine. For a Cave Wizard, battle field control via Bear Traps when a Force Field could also do it seems just less fitting. I guess it just takes getting used to the new system. Tamior playing it right now on Twitch helps grasping the details.

[Sykar]

O, ye of little faith.

Updated post now for current experimental branch psi mechanics.

We already had a hotfix with noticeable changes so that post will probably be obsolete soon again. If you really want to make a guide it will probably be better to create a new thread once we are past the beta/experimental stage which might take a while.

[TheAverageGortsby]

We already had a hotfix with noticeable changes so that post will probably be obsolete soon again.

There's a reason I list the "current as of" date in the updated recommendations post.  Don't you worry; I'll keep things current as long as this thread stays relevant.