Specializations for SMG Character

[Ravager]

Specializations are new for me. I have a typical SMG character, with Commando, Spec Ops, Three-Pointer, Grenadier, Ballistics, Suppression, etc...

Given the situation of large crowds and tough enemies in Expedition, I am thinking the suppression specs might be useful. Ranged-combat suppression looks handy for certain enemy crowds, and I like the AP reduction specialization, as well.

The problem is that there are four or five sub-branches of suppression specialization, so I am not sure what to invest in. But I like AP reduction and range-suppression.

Then there's the grenades. One of the specializations will allow me to reduce the cooldown time of grenades, which is pretty significant.

I also like the 3 AP increase for each kill that comes from Commando or Spec Ops (I forget which). That's a definite one for me.

There's the one for Ballistics, that enables you to increase the DT of the vest by 1 for each level (up to 3, I think). That seems cool, if I'm making more vests. But am I? I have endgame vest equipment already.

Then there's ones that seem potentially useless. I have Escape Artist, but only to get out of traps. I don't need the extra AP after escaping that the specializations provide.

I think the specializations for the meat-and-potatoes feats of the build are best, such as Commando / Spec Ops, Grenade Cooldown, etc...

Are the specializations that increase grenade damage worth it? By the time you're in Expedition, grenades only kill enemies that are already easy-to-kill. What about the damage boosts to Expertise that specializations provide? Are they worth it in late-game?

The only ones I'm sure about are the extra 3 AP per kill, maybe the bonuses to suppressive fire, and maybe the grenade cooldown reduction.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Ballistics really isn't very good for any build. At max specialization it only provides 6 more physical DT.  Granted, if you're running around with kevlar overcoat, that can translate to like 21-22 physical DT vs bullets, but still, that's 3 spec points for taking less damage when you get hit; wouldn't it be better to try to set yourself up to just get hit less, instead?  The problem I have with Ballistics is that it looks really useful in mid-game but by the time you get to Deep Caverns or Black Sea, you're not getting hit with a lot of things that are going to be decided by your physical DT.

Grenadier doesn't have specialization points, apparently, so you must be talking about Spec Ops.  That only reduces the cooldown of flashbangs and grenades on that cooldown timer, so while not worthless, it would depend on how often you use the special-tactics grenades to decide if getting 1 extra turn of cooldown reduction is worth two points to you.

Especially on higher difficulty levels, grenades are less useful for their direct damage than they are for their secondary effects.  Since Three Pointer is so chance-based (very difficult to get your grenade crit much over a 1-in-three chance) it's hard to recommend even just for the feat slot, much less for spec points.

[Ravager]

Thanks for the advice. Do you think that the bonuses to suppressive fire (such as enemy AP reduction and accuracy reduction) are worth it? Certainly, the 3 extra AP per kill (from Commando?) is worth it to me.

From what you know about my build (Commando, Spec Ops, Suppression, Expertise, Doctor, Sprint), is there anything from those that you would recommend over the grenade and ballistics-based feats?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Thanks for the advice. Do you think that the bonuses to suppressive fire (such as enemy AP reduction and accuracy reduction) are worth it? Certainly, the 3 extra AP per kill (from Commando?) is worth it to me.

From what you know about my build (Commando, Spec Ops, Suppression, Expertise, Doctor, Sprint), is there anything from those that you would recommend over the grenade and ballistics-based feats?

I haven't played a SMG build in a while (might have been before DOMINATING was introduced, not sure right now) so I'm not sure I'm right about what I think regarding specializations for that build.  Sure, 3/3 Commando seems a no-brainer; at the very least, that means that when it procs you can reload both weapons "for free" if you need, or get one more burst in.  Suppressive Fire AP reduction looks good, especially since the hit cone is fairly large and you're going to have to maneuver anyway due to the short optimal range of SMGs; Expertise is always nice for builds that hit often, and there might not be a build that hits more often than burst SMG. 

If you do Commando, Expertise, and Suppressive Fire, then you only have 2 points left; I guess Spec Ops makes a lot of sense then, unless you use Quick Tinkering a lot.

[newageofpower]

I ran a SMG build in dominating before, here are my conclusions.

Spec Ops is the cornerstone of high dex SMG builds; its even more important than Commando for Dex maximizing builds; saving 100% AP per burst lets you burst for theoretically 10 AP (16 dex take +2 dex veteran feat and Supersoldier drug) without rapid reloader, which gives you more dakka/turn than even Commando.

If your only 10 DEX then spec ops might be somewhat inferior to Commando, but if your 14+ never drop Specops.

Full Auto, Commando, Suppressive Fire and Opportunist are your other core feats, with the specialization Full Auto goes from "very good" to "amazing". Obviously specialize Commando, that's a "third" free burst or reload both your SMGs. If you are running a crit build (Seeker Goggles, Infused Rathound Leather, Focus Stim before a fight) you don't need Expertise, otherwise absolutely take Expertise.

Three pointer is really dubious in builds that don't go 100+ throwing... And as you are SMG, you don't need that many nades. Your area damage is actually even better than AR if you fire 5+ bursts a turn. I really would drop it.

Ballistics is practically useless late game, and not a lifesaver early game, cut that feat too.

Grenadier may be almost necessary to pass midgame depending on what you cut to achieve minmax, and along with Spec Ops should give you enough CC mid-lategame.

You might want to take economic feats (Salesman, Disassemble) if on DOMINATING; SMG builds have horrific ammo efficiency in return for their insane AP efficiency, I carried 3 different SMGs with different calibers to maximize utilization of picked up ammo, and still found myself still constantly buying more bullets.

[Ravager]

Thanks. My character is an old character, from before the expansion and related updates. [Before the nerfing of "Smart" devices giving extra burst damage].

So I am turning it from a "Smart Burst" build into a "Critical Build" like you describe. She already has the Critical Goggles and Focus Stims, and the infused rathound armour is next.

It's funny, the build is based on Wildan's / Nerd Commando's old build for the "Commando / Spec Ops" SMG character, back when the game was new. So it has inefficiences from back before builds were optimized: ballistics, three-pointer, no Full Auto.

Now, I'm turning the build into something more optimized for Underrail: Expedition.

New equipment is needed for new situations. The old Smart Compensated 5mm and 8.6mm SMGs that mowed down enemies with a single 5-round burst aren't cutting it in Expedition. I had to switch to Muzzled Tactical SMGs, spraying 7 bullets with a smaller accuracy bonus. If it doesn't hit who you're aiming at, there's usually plenty of other enemies! I swear, I am doing about 75% of the work during the island invasions. Setting fire to one LZ while rushing over to meet the wave on the opposite end.

In this context, the specialization reducing special grenade cooldown has been immensely helpful. I use about 10 toxic 'nades during each invasion, littering the map with them. I can spam one every turn or two. Finally have a use for the 40 or so Toxic Barrels I collected.

Anyway, yeah, the most helpful specializations for me right now are the grenade cooldown reduction, 9 more AP from kills, and reducing enemy AP via suppression. Since I'm going for a crit-focused build now, I'll be skipping buffs to Expertise.

[Ravager]

Also, special grenades are incredibly useful during the island invasions, because my 7-round bursts are in danger of hitting the Naga Protector at times, which turns it against me. But the gas grenades can be launched right next to it, which hurts the enemies, but not the Naga or Turrets.