Specific questions for a specific (crafting-focused scientist) build

[Persimmons]

Hello friends, after tearing through the game with a full psi build, which was very powerful but not all that fun to me, I wanted to make something closer to the first build I tried, which was very fun but not very powerful.

As with most first try builds, it was spread WAY too thin, crossbows/guns/stealth/pickpocket/traps/persuade/intimidate/every psi/every crafting/etc. Amazingly, I made it surprisingly far, and special tactics mk III shock bolt>massive stockpiles of mk V grenades>premeditate+psionic mania fireball>pyrokinetic stream at the beginning of every combat took me all the way to the elevator sequence.

Anyways, I've always really enjoyed the crafting system in this game, and I'd like to make a sneaky-scientist-jack-of-all-trades type build that cranks up all 5 crafting skills to utilize them to their full potential, with lots of different gear and grenades for any situation, plus enough stealth, persuasion and mercantile to be even more versatile. I will... PROBABLY not be using oddity. Considering going on Hard difficulty, unless I end up doing something super unoptimal. To that end, I had a few questions:

*Crossbows or chemical/energy pistols? I really like using all the special bolts, but if I'm going to have a bunch of grenades it might clutter my quick slots. Or should I do something else entirely? I suppose I can dabble in other guns if I go energy pistols.

*Pretty much every build I see has at least a dip in one or two psi disciplines, is it THAT mandatory to an optimal build? I figure what I'm going for is gonna be a little strapped for skill points... and HP, but TM seems pretty damn good as a support skill, too...

*How good are traps? I've never really used them. How much am I missing out?

*Never really used dodging or evasion either, but it seems like those values will never get high enough to do anything more than take a slight edge off.

*Is pickpocketing worth it at all outside of oddity?

*If I'm going to be crafting a lot of gear anyways that can crank up my stealth values, what's a good soft cap to stop at for that?

*Soft cap for throwing, if it's gonna be mostly grenades?

That being said, could anyone point me to a good build that I could just tweak a bit to satisfy my goals?

And here's a quick and dirty mockup of more or less what I'm going for.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?EAMGBAYIAw5aHgAAACgoJi8AKCw9PRcoAAAAST0AIC8oKwEnMSoWwppaKeK0lAHfvw

It certainly isn't optimal, but does it has any glaring weaknesses/problems?

[chimaera]

Energy pistols, going for super high intelligence instead of high dexterity. You could try the build described by Ad Astra at the end of this thread here:
https://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=4752.0

With genius levels of intelligence you can easily max all crafting with relatively low skill point investment. Because the above build lacks dexterity for grenadier, I'd go for traps instead (the crafted high level versions are very good, but you'll want pack rathound for carrying them). You won't have quick tinkering, but with psi you can just premeditate > electrokinetic imprint.

[Persimmons]

Energy pistols, going for super high intelligence instead of high dexterity. You could try the build described by Ad Astra at the end of this thread here:
https://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=4752.0

With genius levels of intelligence you can easily max all crafting with relatively low skill point investment. Because the above build lacks dexterity for grenadier, I'd go for traps instead (the crafted high level versions are very good, but you'll want pack rathound for carrying them). You won't have quick tinkering, but with psi you can just premeditate > electrokinetic imprint.

Honestly, grenade specialization is one of the few things I really, really wanted to focus on, so Grenadier is one of the few non-negotiable feats I want to take.

Anyways, I made a quick & dirty mockup of more-or-less what I'm going for:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?EAMGBAYIAw5aHgAAACgoJi8AKCw9PRcoAAAAST0AIC8oKwEnMSoWwppaKeK0lAHfvw

It's not optimized, and I know it's not optimized, it's supposed to exploit all of the mechanics I find fun first, but is there anything glaring I'll regret not taking/investing too much in?

[HulkOSaurus]

Honestly, grenade specialization is one of the few things I really, really wanted to focus on, so Grenadier is one of the few non-negotiable feats I want to take.

Anyways, I made a quick & dirty mockup of more-or-less what I'm going for:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?EAMGBAYIAw5aHgAAACgoJi8AKCw9PRcoAAAAST0AIC8oKwEnMSoWwppaKeK0lAHfvw

It's not optimized, and I know it's not optimized, it's supposed to exploit all of the mechanics I find fun first, but is there anything glaring I'll regret not taking/investing too much in?

This is how I'd do it if I were in your place.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?EAMHBQYKAwpaWgAAAC08KAAAHi1BQR4tABkANwAAIycvYRYwwpoBK0Aewoffvw

[TheAverageGortsby]

It's not optimized, and I know it's not optimized, it's supposed to exploit all of the mechanics I find fun first, but is there anything glaring I'll regret not taking/investing too much in?

Learning psi requires base skill, not effective.  There's no sense at all in going 73 into Temporal Manipulation; and with 3 Will, no sense going deeper than 73, either.  Stick with 70 if you plan to use Stasis, otherwise 55 will be fine.

Don't know what the plan is with Evasion, but with only 4 Agi, you're not going to qualify for any useful feats.  I would pay more attention to reducing the ability of enemies to make attacks, rather than try to put points into avoiding their attacks.

This is how I'd do it if I were in your place.

No Premeditation on a high-Int psi-capable build?

[Persimmons]

This is how I'd do it if I were in your place.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?EAMHBQYKAwpaWgAAAC08KAAAHi1BQR4tABkANwAAIycvYRYwwpoBK0Aewoffvw

Interesting. What's the purpose of taking Perception past 7? Wouldn't Dexterity be a better investment?

And are Traps really THAT good? I figured if I was going to be focusing so much on energy pistols and grenades I'd dabble in them, but they might be a little redundant. How important is enemy detection when it comes to traps?

I was planning on just taking Grenadier, but is it just not worth taking if you're not going to go three-pointer as well? Seems like a large skill investment when I'm already spread a little thin.

Finally, why choose hacking over lockpicking? Does one tend towards a different kind of loot than the other?

Learning psi requires base skill, not effective.  There's no sense at all in going 73 into Temporal Manipulation; and with 3 Will, no sense going deeper than 73, either.  Stick with 70 if you plan to use Stasis, otherwise 55 will be fine.

Thanks for the info. I really wish this game was clearer about what's based off of base skill vs effective skill.

Don't know what the plan is with Evasion, but with only 4 Agi, you're not going to qualify for any useful feats.  I would pay more attention to reducing the ability of enemies to make attacks, rather than try to put points into avoiding their attacks.

Yeah, I know, I just wasn't sure where else to put it at that point. I just made my build and then dumped the rest into Evasion, figured the reduced AoE damage would at least take the edge off. What do you think the "dump whatever's left into" skill should be?

[chimaera]

I think your build looks alright, actually. A few suggestions:
- drop agility to 3 and raise perception to 9. Assuming normal difficulty & items this should be enough. For sneaking, you can raise the value with items too, so no need to invest in agility just for that.
- drop evasion and use the skill points for psychokinesis (45 gets you all the useful abilities). Most aoe damage you can avoid with good shields and you can reach ridiculously high values on crafted ones. Just switch between frequencies as needed. With psychokinesis, not only do you get more disablers, but force field, which is a guaranteed "evade", in a way. ;-)
- take premeditation, if you haven't. I'd also try to get grenadier and high technicalities as early as possible. You can buy limited temporal increment at SGS and it's very powerful when used together with grenadier, especially if you raise chemistry early and start crafting mkiii & iv frag grenades.

[HulkOSaurus]

Interesting. What's the purpose of taking Perception past 7? Wouldn't Dexterity be a better investment?

And are Traps really THAT good? I figured if I was going to be focusing so much on energy pistols and grenades I'd dabble in them, but they might be a little redundant. How important is enemy detection when it comes to traps?

I was planning on just taking Grenadier, but is it just not worth taking if you're not going to go three-pointer as well? Seems like a large skill investment when I'm already spread a little thin.

Finally, why choose hacking over lockpicking? Does one tend towards a different kind of loot than the other?

I understand you want Int for baseline Energy Weapon damage. But Perception also provides that while boosting your ranged weapons' accuracy. And playing single shot weapons like Energy Weapons you'll want as much as you can get in that department, trust me. I'd also look into all the Perception-increasing consumables I can get my hands on because it will make a lot of difference. You can still keep increasing Dex/Con later into the game. Speaking of Energy Weapons, I also think having an Acid Pistol would help you in some situations. You can keep swapping weapons even during combat with Quick Pockets.

With Quick Tinkering you'd be able to lay down a MK IV or V mine and blow it up the same turn with a grenade. You can open a combat with a grenade, then Flashbang them. Lay down a mine while they are stunned, run back and throw another grenade. Because of your Stealth you'll also be able to rig places up before combat, making it more difficult for enemies to get to you. Or get to a specific enemy you want to take out - like a sniper, and block the are behind you.

You invest more into Electronics, and that benefits your Hacking, which means that you will get better results than Lockpicking with less investment into it. Either of them is fine. Getting both will be too much of a spread. After having decent Crafting, Hacking will help you with getting loot and operating some consoles.

I basically go by what you said here .

a sneaky-scientist-jack-of-all-trades type build that cranks up all 5 crafting skills to utilize them to their full potential, with lots of different gear and grenades for any situation, plus enough stealth, persuasion and mercantile to be even more versatile.

No Premeditation on a high-Int psi-capable build?

I honestly don't think Premediation would be that useful here. A large chunk of the AoE damage would come from explosives but those don't cost as much as Crykinetic Orb, Pyrokinesis or Enrage. The most expensive skill would be Force Field on 15 AP. Grenade, Force Field, grenade after it expires, Flashbang, grenade after it expires, reduce cooldowns and run, grenade, Psi-Temporal Contraction. The build will be able to flow without Premediation.

But even so, there is still enough time to take the feat for the serious combat encounters.