Dev Log #67: Version 1.1.2.0 - Waterways and Psi Update

[Valor]

So my thoughts on current update:

Psi spells nerfs - I agree with them, though there will need to be some more numbers balancing in the future imho.
I am not a fan of psi reserve, makes it very harsh to start as psi user. I have another suggestion that might bring required effect while offering some leniency:

Using psi abilities decreased your max psi by % of cost of the spell (10-20%). You max psi cannot be reduced bellow x%(25%?). To "heal" your max psi you need to use inhaler.
I hope implications of such system are clear.

As for innervate spells - While in theory the system is interesting, in practise it will lead to pushing out niche psi spells out of the game. There are spells that need very specific situation that arises maybe once every 2-3 hours of gameplay. And considering most psi users will have 3-5 psi slots, there will not be place for them even if you will be using just one school. I do not think this is a good solution, but I agree that something more needs to be done to limit the versatility.

[Riggs]

Good lord this update is a bit heavy handed, no? Taking what was widely considered the most dynamic and versatile build in the game (pure psi) and reducing it to this frankly pathetic level of one dimensional rinse and repeat drivel is pretty sad to see. I really don't know exactly what you were going for here Styg, but if your goal was to make new players hate Psi and old players ignore it completely in favor of other more tried and true viable build methods then you've most likely achieved that goal with these changes. I'm glad you're still invested in updating Underrail, but this... this just seems like some hamfisted blundering here, not a nuanced refinement of a system that was admittedly a bit overpowered but still absolutely enjoyable to use. I hope you rethink these changes because they don't seem like they do anything but restrict the options available to the player, which in a single player  role playing game is very rarely a positive thing.

[Vokial]

Psi nerfs I can agree with to a certain extent. I think that Force Field should be nerfed even more, by only casting a sinlge tile under base conditions and you should get additional ones depending on your Psychokinesis skill.
Crit Power nerf is also something I can live with.

However, I'm really devastated by the nerfs my temporal sniper build have to suffer. It was so perfect. If I interpret the changes correctly, then Rapid Reloader doesn't lower the AP cost at all, it only has a small 25% chance to provide aditional AP from time to time, and even then the bonus will be a random amount between 16 and 20 (with a Spearhead). This makes it completely unreliable and brings more RNG - something my build efficently ruled out in favor of maximum efficency. Now I cannot count ahead with my AP and also even if I receive the bonus, thanks to the Spearhead nerf, I can't shoot 3 times even with max bonus from RR and Temporal Contraction.
The main point in making hybrids was to utilize the synergies between different abilities - that part was the main reason I though so highly about this game's design. Now that's gone. Especially with what happened to the Temporal school. Now there's no synergy anymore, just skills on their own. I can't help but feel that this update is from some bootleg alpha stage.

Regarding Temporal Contraction... that nerf is the death sentence for my build. It's made around using that spell with the fully specialized Acceleration feat, so being buffed every 4th round for a whooping 72 AP 3 out of 4 turns. I honestly thought that with Expedition, this spell being used with the Rapid Spearhead's AP cost of 24 is intentional by the devs promoting psi hybrid snipers. It's not unintentional fortunate circumstances, they acutally thought it out like this. My build is tailored to use this ability not once per battle, but for at least 3 times, enjoying it's effects for 9 turns out of 11. It is why I have increased Will and Intelligence too and took up 3 psi feats. This nerf brokes that to pieces as if you use it once, you better finish the battle within 3 turns (if you wasted a feat slot for Acceleration) because if any enemy is still left standing afterwards, you'll be helpless and die.
This makes Contraction to be used when the fight is nearing it's end. When it'll be completely pointless. The point of this spell is to use it FIRST ROUND when there's many enemies to clear, so you can take as much down as possible before they'll be able to really utilize their advantage in numbers. So after it wears off, you'll be left with less, making it easier to deal with your base AP. Now the fear of it backfiring on you will make most people use it when they can estimate the fight's end within 3 rounds, meaning they already dealt with the enemy's main force. This makes Temporal Contraction utterly useless against crowds - the occasion when you need it the most.

I only used Increment and Contraction (not even force field as it seemed broken and basically cheating in it's former state), so I'm fine with the spell slot restriction too. This update was meant to favor psi hbrids as they have more divided stats and skills compared to pure psi users. But with nerfing Contraction like this, there won't be any point in making psi hybrid builds, I just go pure firearm. Definetly doesn't worth to use Temporal (let alone tailor my build around it) and loose 25%HP for psi empathy, waste all that stat points, all those skill points and 3 feats slots to have a broken build that's specialty is self-pwning when you can invest all that and go pure firearm user and specialize in it completely without suffering the compromises you made for being hybrid.
The Temporal nerf doesn't propagates hybrids, it makes them impossible to use. It benefits complete psi-less builds, thus resulting in the exact opposite of what it hoped to accomplish.

I just hope that update won't be forced on everyone, the devs should leave it to the players which version they want to play depending on if they would like to play hybrids (then go for the previous version) or pure psi users / psi-less builds (go with the new update).

[Sykar]

I really think PSI needs either a new feat or an existing feat allowing us to swap psionic abilities once per combat at least, at some ap cost, maybe even PSI cost. Alternatively additional slots via feats or maybe visiting mentors and getting quests from them could be an idea as well. 8 still feels a little bit too restrictive.

[Stavrophore]

Explosions looks really good but out of place compared to the rest of graphically aging engine But we dont play underrail for graphics.

[TheAverageGortsby]

If we are caught in a protracted battle, which will cost us more than 600 psi, we are dead bodies. With no exceptions.

Oh, not at all.  This is one part of the mechanic that is without flaw from concept to execution - Styg wanted to make sure that psi was not infinite, and it is not; whether you agree that his idea was necessary, it is in this case well-implemented.  This makes it all the more important to pick up alternate methods of damage dealing - Grenadier will be coming back into vogue for pure psi builds as something nearly necessary rather than just occasionally helpful.  Traps and stealth will become more important when setting up the field of battle for large fights.  And, of course, specializing more heavily into the abilities you do use so they're more efficient at killing enemies will be the choice build.

All we really need is a third psi booster type, now - one that can be used in combat, is rare/expensive beyond the inhalers, and only restores psi reserve.  That way protracted fights like the natives incursions or the Balor and Beast fights can be managed more reasonably as pure psi.  Alternately, a psi feat that leeches reserve points somehow (like I previously recommended for Psychosis, and still think Psychosis needs to be viable in the current form) into psi reserve would work.  Psi reserve regeneration would also work, but isn't consistent with Styg's desire to have a globally scare resource, so probably won't make an appearance unless he changes his mind substantially.

[Cyrano]

This is clearly going to be a very divisive update. Don't you agree it would be a better idea to introduce this as an option for players rather than a requirement, like oddity/combat exp is, since it's such a massive overhaul of already preexisting mechanics that have been in place for years? This would render characters (like mine) that people (like me) have over 60 hours of playtime in basically useless because we didn't spec ourselves out with these mechanics in mind. For its own game mode I think this is all fine and dandy but I think it's super unfair to players to bust out such a major overhaul in a game that isn't even in early access when you can sink such a massive amount of time into the game on one character.

I'm currently on my first character and after 60 hours I would honestly be pretty pissed off if a random overhaul just rendered her useless or made her any weaker than she already is tbh, I would be demotivated to make a new one just to get back to where I was in the story because I got hardlocked since suddenly I can't use half my abilities. I also agree with people saying this would discourage psi hybrids, it's a very strict new set of mechanics and in my case a 4 will 5 int squishy psi monk would suddenly not be able to survive a lot of situations that they previously would barely be able to scrape by.

I mean if that *has* to be pushed on players then at the very least is there a way to skip out once it leaves experimental? I got it on steam so idunno if that's even a possibility.

also I really don't like the choice to give Force Field HP only due to the fact that enemies can already shoot *through* it if it's placed diagonally or if they're standing diagonally facing the player. I mean there's literally a whole ass wall in front of them but somehow they can shoot through it and I can't, so unless that gets fixed first it'd really risk making that ability not worth using in too many situations.

[trashplayer]

Well, the new patch makes the cave wizard power fantasy alive again, if that means trivializing the game only and nothing more.
Even a dipper has 3 slots now, which is enough for the static tempo buffs+Stasis. A real cave wizard will have 6 at the very least, which is more than enough. 10% per school is very livable. It counterbalances the Expedition power creep somewhat but not enough to challenge the vets, yet quite deterring to a lot of players. Make the whole thing optional sounds like the right option.
Reserves is a real pain in the ass though, more bookkeeping + crafting + backtracking for little effect. Fill up for free in Pasquale's for early game?
As for Rapid Reloader, the change is a bonus on top of what it does, so it is a buff. People needs more than bland technical writing for laundry lists, Styg should have formatted the whole thing better. Snipers also get a new crazy feat that plinks 2 punks with a big boy for free in a turn, so they are bonkers now.
Contraction works as an additional shot of Adrenaline now, which is more fair if not fun. Psi cost reduced in new patch helps multischoolers.
Forcefield is still very powerful, if more situational, for a dedicated build. Force User is among the better Psi feat anyway.

Meanwhile, knife and firearm pistol cry in the corner with Critical Power nerf and no compensation. Weapons are generally in a good place though.

[polkjm]

Thank you so much Styg. I made an account to tell you how much I love this update. I wish it was kept to the original (before the hotfix) version. To me Psi has always been that thing I don't really touch because it's so ridiculous compared to attack builds.

I will now be enjoying some awesome psi builds and actually enjoy managing a resource and thinking about my loadout instead of taking every psi ability I can and just using them whenever it's needed.

Maybe most people won't appreciate just how amazing this update is but I wanted to say I absolutely love it and I love you guys for implementing it! The game really needed it and I believe it's now a much, much better game.

[RC Ultra]

Intimidation scaling with Strength is a small but awesome change.

[Lotaeri]

Hello Underrail forums.  I decided to finally make an account so I could leave some thoughts on the recent changes.  I think... overall... I like them.  I can see potential with the new circuit system.  I don't think it's perfect yet, but I like the direction that I see Psi going in terms of it's being reigned in.

1)- Psi reserves.  This feels... it feels good to have to manage another resource.  It means that long protracted battles will wear down a psion (battles for the aegis incorporated beach for example) but that feels about right.  Other builds need to bring enough ammo or batteries, or risk getting into the thick of it in these situations. Now Psi also has this consideration.  I would like to see the depletion of psi and psi reserves upon innervation to be removed (or lessened) as it feels more restrictive for a heavy psionic user to swap out powers for others when preparing for different situations.

2)- Innervation circuits.  When this patch was first released on the 21st I felt that 3 was way too restrictive.  Even hybrid characters, like the ones I tend to make (pistol psi, sword psi, etc) felt like they could use another slot but for 9 intelligence (and only 6 total) was a wee bit too restrictive.  The recent change gives enough breathing room that I don't see problems for dual spec characters that decide to get to 8 int.  By that I mean - they feel about right; they still will have to make choices as to what to memorize before engaging in certain enemies (bots vs. mutants as in depot A), and the limited selection means carefully selecting the right tool for the job. 

I'd like to see some feats which can be taken for other slot unlocks.  Or maybe a feat that unlocks a specific slot that, whatever ability is placed inside of it, gains a +% to crit, or lowers the PSI/AP cost, or increases it's range, or lowers it's cooldown or some such.  Would be interesting to see theories about which psionic disciplines to stick in certain circuits if such were implemented.  Or maybe a quest (as Sykar thought) could work.  Maybe those twins could give such.  I also think the trade off of power vs utility (in terms of feat selection: gain a circuit or two for a feat or two vs. increasing the power of select psi powers) could be a nice way to balance Psi. 

3)- The increased Psi cost.  I'd like to see this handled a different way.  Instead of penalizing a player for taking 'spells' from different schools why not reward them for selecting fewer?  Like... with only 1 single school in the circuits the cost is reduced to 90% and the abilities cost 2 AP less to use.  If 2 you only get the 90%.  At 3+ no bonuses.  (or something to that effect).

Overall - I like the way this is headed in terms of the psi mechanics changing.  Well done Styg.

[LordGorchnik]

When is it going live? (not the test one but the official one)

One would really hope not anytime soon. I really don't like what I've seen thus far from these changes. And no matter what I feel its going to be divisive in the Underrail community. Even more so as this as some have stated is a SP game and thus "balance" really shouldn't be at the forefront.

If game mechanics and design are what they are going for which is what it seems like here than that's fine but I don't like that this change effectively kills the entire playstyle of specific builds. Updates and changes to design should allow for more diversity and not more restrictive to a specific style.

Am I the only one that feels its more restrictive now? Maybe I'm alone on that island.

[Folko-Ven]

I really don't like this update, mostly new core psi mechanics.If the update comes out like this, then most likely I will quit playing.

[heyaheyahey]

Well I'm mostly not bothered with the changes to psi at the moment, although I do have to say this change is very drastic (but interesting nonetheless).

But damn, having a chance to suffer the opposite effect for psycho-temporal contraction as it has become my best friend.

All in all, I'm interested in seeing how this fares in my coming playthroughs when the changes hit live.

[Pruvan]

I really don't like this update, mostly new core psi mechanics.If the update comes out like this, then most likely I will quit playing.

Version 1.1.2.2 added a lot more flexibility for psi focused characters in the form of feats looks like. Keep in mind that this update is still in development, so if you have any concerns now is the time to address them. Adopting a defeatist attitude doesn't help anyone.