Force Emission based puncher?

[igetnorespect]

I'm half-way through my 1st playthrough (stealthy chem pistol/sniper), but I'm already thinking about my 2nd.

Burst weapons seems too similar an experience, so I wanted to go melee. I had designed a heavy sledgehammer build, but having recently experienced what lack of stealth does when I explored a bit in heavy armor, it's not something I want to play. I like stealth, and how it keeps me in control of the initial attack, so I want to keep that. So I went another path: Bruce Lee.

https://underrail.info/build/?GQwIBwYDBQUAPADCh8KHwodkADwAGks_AAAVAMKHAADChwArTyZpGBlEIAzCqBNDB2gG
(Ignore the feat levelling progression, I just picked them in the order presented on the site)

Is this viable on Hard or maybe even Dominating? The idea is to use Force Emission to add unarmed damage, and use other psychokinesis abilities as support. Sneak up on enemy groups, activate it, punch away (or flashbang then punch away). The tons of movement points should help me escape tight situations, but I'm hoping the 20 attacks of Force Emission I get out of 100 psi are enough to turn the tide.

I don't have the expansion.

[destroyor]

I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote in my FAQ:

Force Emission - some people swear by it when playing psi monk. I think it's garbage:

    While the raw damage on paper could be significant, its damage is a new separate mechanical attack that's roll individually against enemies' mechanical resist/threshold which will usually vastly decrease its effective damage.
    You can get as low as 4 action point per attack if you have high DEX. If you use Force Emission every hit it'll rapidly drains your psi points, leaving you unable to cast other psi abilities when you need them.

Garbage, even for psi monk, don't waste your slot. If you want to try planning a build around it w/ Force User and Telekinetic Proxy, create a new manual save file before the attempt, just in case you want to roll back your char.

I would love to be proven wrong on this one so I'll be very interested for any pro Force Emission argument/comment.

[Ploluap]

I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote in my FAQ:

Force Emission - some people swear by it when playing psi monk. I think it's garbage:

    While the raw damage on paper could be significant, its damage is a new separate mechanical attack that's roll individually against enemies' mechanical resist/threshold which will usually vastly decrease its effective damage.
    You can get as low as 4 action point per attack if you have high DEX. If you use Force Emission every hit it'll rapidly drains your psi points, leaving you unable to cast other psi abilities when you need them.

Garbage, even for psi monk, don't waste your slot. If you want to try planning a build around it w/ Force User and Telekinetic Proxy, create a new manual save file before the attempt, just in case you want to roll back your char.

I would love to be proven wrong on this one so I'll be very interested for any pro Force Emission argument/comment.

Never played with force emission myself but here is our friend Sheepherder : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDR43ASOrVU&t=350s

I'm planning to try a 10 will fist weapon dude with psychokinesis and TC some day, don't know if it will be good but could be worth the try.

[Ploluap]

I'm half-way through my 1st playthrough (stealthy chem pistol/sniper), but I'm already thinking about my 2nd.

Burst weapons seems too similar an experience, so I wanted to go melee. I had designed a heavy sledgehammer build, but having recently experienced what lack of stealth does when I explored a bit in heavy armor, it's not something I want to play. I like stealth, and how it keeps me in control of the initial attack, so I want to keep that. So I went another path: Bruce Lee.

https://underrail.info/build/?GQwIBwYDBQUAPADCh8KHwodkADwAGks_AAAVAMKHAADChwArTyZpGBlEIAzCqBNDB2gG
(Ignore the feat levelling progression, I just picked them in the order presented on the site)

Is this viable on Hard or maybe even Dominating? The idea is to use Force Emission to add unarmed damage, and use other psychokinesis abilities as support. Sneak up on enemy groups, activate it, punch away (or flashbang then punch away). The tons of movement points should help me escape tight situations, but I'm hoping the 20 attacks of Force Emission I get out of 100 psi are enough to turn the tide.

I don't have the expansion.

It's viable for hard at least, but unarmed and fist damage comes mostly from critically hits, so you'd be better i think with recklessness than with expertise.

Also you want lightning punches, cheap shots, combo and critical power as soon as possible.

And fancy footwork will make hit and run worthless most of the time, so unless you really know what you are doing i wouldn't pick hit and run.

Taste for blood is also a feat i would advise for, it's a pretty big damage buff for a lot of encounters.

[igetnorespect]

Never played with force emission myself but here is our friend Sheepherder : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDR43ASOrVU&t=350s

I'm planning to try a 10 will fist weapon dude with psychokinesis and TC some day, don't know if it will be good but could be worth the try.

Nice, will use that as inspiration. I don't have Expedition but some limited use of CheatEngine will let me fill the gaps in vanilla.

And thanks for the heads up about requiring crits.

[destroyor]

Never played with force emission myself but here is our friend Sheepherder : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDR43ASOrVU&t=350s

I'm planning to try a 10 will fist weapon dude with psychokinesis and TC some day, don't know if it will be good but could be worth the try.

Look at the combat log - everything I said pretty much happened in the video. He was playing a bare fist unarmed build meaning the lowest possible melee damage and even so you can see force emission damage is an order of magnitude lower.

[Ploluap]

Never played with force emission myself but here is our friend Sheepherder : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDR43ASOrVU&t=350s

I'm planning to try a 10 will fist weapon dude with psychokinesis and TC some day, don't know if it will be good but could be worth the try.

Look at the combat log - everything I said pretty much happened in the video. He was playing a bare fist unarmed build meaning the lowest possible melee damage and even so you can see force emission damage is an order of magnitude lower.

It's not huge but it does'nt seem useless to me at all

[destroyor]

Damage from Force Emission cannot crit and is based on effective Psychokinesis so you won't be able to get them higher than what you see in the video unless you spec into WIL/STR but you can't because you need them for DEX. When you use Pneumatic Leather Gloves the damage is higher per hit vs. bare fist. If you build critical chance and critical damage bonus as high as possible the damage differences are even higher. Factor in critical Pneumatic strike damage and you'll discover Force Emission damage are too low and not needed. After watching the video I'm even more convince than before you are better off saving those psi points to cast CC psi abilities.

[sheepherder]

Damage from Force Emission cannot crit and is based on effective Psychokinesis so you won't be able to get them higher than what you see in the video unless you spec into WIL/STR but you can't because you need them for DEX. When you use Pneumatic Leather Gloves the damage is higher per hit vs. bare fist. If you build critical chance and critical damage bonus as high as possible the damage differences are even higher. Factor in critical Pneumatic strike damage and you'll discover Force Emission damage are too low and not needed. After watching the video I'm even more convince than before you are better off saving those psi points to cast CC psi abilities.

I think Force Emissions work quite well with Unarmed, but I wouldn't use it with Combat Gloves, because as you said, the damage from Pneumatic gloves completely overshadows the damage from Force Emissions. Combat gloves can max DEX and ignore STR, only losing Heavy Punch/Wrestling/Bone Breaker.
Unarmed on the other hand, needs the multiplicative damage bonus from STR and Force Emissions, because it has fewer ways to increase it's damage output, plus the base damage is fairly low. It can then get just enough DEX to reach 4 AP or 5 AP attacks.

[destroyor]

I think Force Emissions work quite well with Unarmed, but I wouldn't use it with Combat Gloves, because as you said, the damage from Pneumatic gloves completely overshadows the damage from Force Emissions. Combat gloves can max DEX and ignore STR, only losing Heavy Punch/Wrestling/Bone Breaker.
Unarmed on the other hand, needs the multiplicative damage bonus from STR and Force Emissions, because it has fewer ways to increase it's damage output, plus the base damage is fairly low. It can then get just enough DEX to reach 4 AP or 5 AP attacks.

I never played a bare fist char before but I'll take your word for it.

[igetnorespect]

I think Force Emissions work quite well with Unarmed, but I wouldn't use it with Combat Gloves, because as you said, the damage from Pneumatic gloves completely overshadows the damage from Force Emissions. Combat gloves can max DEX and ignore STR, only losing Heavy Punch/Wrestling/Bone Breaker.
Unarmed on the other hand, needs the multiplicative damage bonus from STR and Force Emissions, because it has fewer ways to increase it's damage output, plus the base damage is fairly low. It can then get just enough DEX to reach 4 AP or 5 AP attacks.

Of the two (Unarmed vs Pneumatic Gloves), which would you recommend for a Dominating run? The 4th hit from pneumatic gloves is nice, but I'd be losing Improved Unarmed which is +20% dmg on every attack. I don't have Expedition.

[sheepherder]

I'd recommend both But if you want to deal tons and tons of damage, then pick Combat Gloves, for sure. They're more or less a single stat weapon, which means they easily get Survival Instincts without sacrificing much.

And grab Expedition, it's well worth it.

[igetnorespect]

I'm sure is nice, but I have such a huge backlog of unplayed games, I'm not buying any new games for at least a few years. I have games I bought years ago on sale that I haven't touched. Underrail was one of them until a few weeks ago.

I see in your video you walk into fights already below 30% HP, instead of letting it happen naturally during the fight. How do you maintain SI? Characters regenerate HP every turn naturally, so how are you staying under 30%? Do you stop every few screens of exploration to throw caltrops at your feet or something? Or do you only do this before tough fights?

[sheepherder]

Characters regenerate health only when above 90% or 95% of HP. Below that, they don't regenerate HP.

[Sykar]

Characters regenerate health only when above 90% or 95% of HP. Below that, they don't regenerate HP.

Above 85% actually.