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Messages - Toast

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31
General / Re: Deep Caverns Are Poop: issues [minor spoilers]
« on: January 06, 2016, 11:27:47 pm »
I have made a topic about the Deep Caverns in the Suggestions forum if you want to add your thoughts to it. I agree the DC need work and the devs are more likely to see it in that forum than here. And I also agree the rest of the game is brilliant, or I wouldn't care so much about the problems at the end.

32
General / Re: deep caverns help (spoiler)
« on: January 06, 2016, 11:18:58 pm »
Let's try this again!

2. You need to do *something* at Project Eos to clear the way to the storage room where the valve is. I will only spoil the rest if you ask.

3. Go to the mushroom forest west of where you meet Six. Sit in the spores until you take a "trip" elsewhere. Keep walking around until you find a big red root thing. Kill it. Take its "heart" and leave. Go to the power plant and power up Hollow Earth (you may need to power down everything else before the option becomes available.) Go to the screen one north and one east of where you meet Six and enter a building with a security camera and a now-functional electronic door. Use the heart in the machine inside to make a bio-grenade. Use grenade on Tchort door.
 
Couldn't be more straightforward.  ::)

4. It is in the Residential Block. The area with the statue. Turn on the power at the power plant and search every room.

5. Yes. Turning on Mutagen Tanks A and Hollow Earth worked for me.

33
General / Re: deep caverns help (spoiler)
« on: January 06, 2016, 11:17:02 pm »
why did my post get cut off, grahhh

2. You need to do

34
General / Re: deep caverns help (spoiler)
« on: January 06, 2016, 11:09:03 pm »
can you tell me where i can find

* the 3. hydraulic canister? have 2 found in the warehouse.
* the control valve?
* the exact procedure to get to door clean of this slime?
* i also need a key card to open the door? marias card? where to find?
* it is right that i must power up the door-section? if yes, which is the exact name of this area?

1. I'm afraid I can't remember this.

2. Have you found Project Eos? It is a bunker with lots of people in statis tubes. You need to

35
General / Re: How to open the door to Burrower Caves
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:56:59 pm »
You are, as noted, supposed to be able to bypass the Persuasion check by getting Quinton to nerd out about the burrowers and make Gorsky give you the keycard, but if Gorsky has already left for Core City that might not be possible anymore. But you're not missing anything except a few oddities that you can definitely get elsewhere, and a whole lot of burrowers. They definitely sealed the door for a reason.  ;)

36
Suggestions / Re: Currency priority when trading
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:31:21 pm »
Fort Apogee uses United Station buxx, which is a pain in the ass if you work for them.

37
Bugs / Re: Gladiator allies turning hostile due to their own fault
« on: January 06, 2016, 02:36:00 am »
Hey, no one said gladiators were geniuses.  ;)

Anyway, this also happened to me, and I agree it is annoying. Perhaps making them "blue" (allied) instead of "gray" (neutral) would solve the problem? My blue allies in the warehouse fight gleefully ran over all my flames and caltrops, much to my chagrin, but at least they didn't become hostile to me afterwards.

38
Suggestions / Re: Assorted suggestions from a new and happy player:
« on: January 06, 2016, 02:26:34 am »
I basically agree with all of these suggestions. Would be very welcome quality-of-life changes. Extra quick travel to your house would be especially welcome, though I doubt it will be implemented at this point.

39
Believe me, it does not thrill me to be asking for enemy nerfs! I just don't see any other way out of the problem created by the toxic mixture of Unlimited Respawns + Limited Resources + Blind Player. You cannot enjoy the difficulty posed by these foes when you have no guaranteed way to refresh your supplies AND you don't know precisely where you're going, so you can't appropriately plan how to avoid/reduce combat, or pick your battles. All you know is that you have to explore every single nook and cranny to find all of the door parts you need, and there is a *literally endless* supply of enemies in your way. When those enemies also chew up your not-endless supplies at the rate they currently do, it's a guaranteed recipe for frustration. I don't know how else to address this problem without significantly restructuring the Deep Caverns, something I don't think it's possible to do at this point. I mean, *maybe* just adding more non-standard ammo to the warehouses would help (armor-piercing rounds, batteries, chemical vials, etc.), but I don't think it would be enough.

As for the Creeping Dread, I agree with you that it's a cool idea, creepy and wonderfully atmospheric, but it just interacts incredibly badly with all the other mechanics you have to deal with down here. And I cannot endorse making Tchortling spawns unavoidable. Much as I hate hiding in holes, at least there is SOMETHING down here I don't HAVE to spend my bullets on. It is a weird and unfortunate side effect that the closer you get to Tchort, the safer you are, because you can just hide from his minions, whereas you have no such safe haven in the mushroom forest, the worm maze, or even the vent shafts in the power plant (I think that first cryogas took five years off my life).

40
Bugs / 1.0.0.7 Cannot ally with Faceless
« on: January 05, 2016, 11:30:16 pm »
There is currently dispute about what must be done to ally with the Faceless. No one seems to be able to do it without letting them kill Buzzer, yet that does not seem to be the intent of the game code that has been found. Please see this thread for details: http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=1763.0

Here's an entire history of my interactions with them:

--disabled the plasma sentries, snuck into Buzzer's shop, let them read my mind, convinced them to leave and spare Buzzer
--helped them in Foundry by honestly telling them everything I knew, they left peacefully and thanked me
--saved the guy in Core City, gave him a high quality health hypo
--dude showed up at the Institute to warn me to leave, I attempted to do so but the game doesn't continue unless you go and squeal to Eidein, sigh
--sat there twiddling my thumbs and doing nothing at all while the Faceless and Tchortists fought each other, then bravely ran away on the elevator

In essence I did every single thing possible to help them and nothing to harm them, ever, yet they still tell me I am "not an ally." Unless disabling the plasma sentries or using Persuasion to save Buzzer have some negative effect, there is no way they should be neutral to me. I just can't figure it out, and it's frustrating as hell.

It would be a great help to many people to get official clarification on this matter!


41
I will just go make a topic in Bugs and link to this right now.

42
They are awful. Here's why.

This is the endgame section and I understand wanting to make changes in difficulty and even in tone. But the Deep Caverns tries to make too many simultaneous changes that when combined only increase tedium and frustration instead of being a pleasing and natural challenge. Here is everything it throws at us at once:

1. Vastly harder enemies. Makes sense for an endgame area, yes. But the resistances on some of these things are simply absurd. 75% Mechanical resist, trap immunity, stun immunity, worms that regen. Strategies that served you for the entirety of the game will now be useless in many fights, and there are fights everywhere, because

2. Endless respawns. Bots inside the power plant, Burrowers outside it, regrowing spore turrets, Tchortlings forever, and god forbid you're hostile to the Faceless. The enemies are endless, and your ability to kill them is not, because

3. Limited supplies. Regular ammo is plentiful, but regular ammo is not a sufficient match for what's thrown at you, because of enemy resistances. If you didn't bring your own armor-piercing rounds, batteries, high-end explosives, traps, special bolts, and chemical ammo, the warehouses will not help you. You can have all the regular bullets in the world and it won't do you any good against most of the enemies down here. It is entirely possible to find yourself in a situation where you cannot trade with either the Tchortists or the Faceless, and god help you trying to buy what you need from Leo. Speaking of allies,

4. You are blind, lost, and alone. Six gives you the worst "directions" in the world, and then you're dropped in the middle of a maze with no clear idea of where to go or what to do. This would ordinarily be an exciting opportunity for exploration! Except now...

5. You are punished for exploration instead of rewarded. Eye of Tchort punishes you for taking your time to explore and find out what you need to do and where you need to go. This is possibly the worst of all, because *exploration* is the heart and soul of the game up to this point. Now, you are forced to do it and punished for it at the same time. You will constantly need to backtrack and retrace your steps, whether it's to reroute the power or simply because you're lost, but every time you do, you meet more respawning enemies stealing your precious, dwindling, non-renewable resources from you. Exploration is now a tedious and frustrating chore instead of a joy. It feels like a slap in the face.

You can do any one or two of these things in an endgame area, maybe you can even do three of them. But you cannot do ALL of them at once and expect the player to enjoy herself.

***

The game is finished, and I doubt we will be seeing MAJOR changes to the Deep Caverns. But there have to be some small things that can be done to make this area less tedious, frustrating, and generally awful. Here are my suggestions.

--MAKE SIX HINT ABOUT LEO. Leo is the only guaranteed source of information the player has available, but he's hidden away in a corner behind a bunch of enemies, far from where the player starts, and hidden inside a locker. You might never find him on your own. Right now Six only tells the player to check out the Faceless and the mushroom forest. I get that you don't want Six to be Mr. Exposition, but adding the ability to simply ask "are there any other people down here?" and having him say he's seen an old man around to the northeast, or something like that, would be a tremendously bigger help than telling the player to go get lost in the mushroom forest.

--STOP LEO FROM LYING ABOUT THE MUSHROOM FOREST. He specifically tells you NOT to stand around in the spores, when that is EXACTLY what you need to do to progress! He also mentions he "ended up somewhere else," but unless you already know what needs to happen here, that is NOT what the player will focus on; they will focus on avoiding the danger he warned them about. Have him say something like "Those spores do strange things" instead of explicitly "Don't stand in the spores," and/or have him say MORE about the strange place he ended up, if you want his advice to helpful instead of misleading.

--STOP THE POWER PLANT BURROWERS FROM RESPAWNING. Burrowers are trash mobs. They are neither interesting nor challenging to fight like they were at level 6. The player will need to revisit the power plant probably numerous times as they figure out what the hell they are doing. Do not make us waste precious resources on trash mobs to do it. This is ridiculous: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=593815743

--or: JUST LET ME REROUTE POWER TO EVERYTHING AT ONCE. No more boring, annoying backtracking in the first place. Problem solved. Having to return here to reroute power adds nothing but frustration.

--SERIOUSLY RECONSIDER ENEMY RESISTANCES. 75-90% mechanical resist is simply absurd and makes fights into a tedious slog when you have limited resources. When you are without the ability to shop for things to adapt to new combat strategies, and you don't even really know where you're going or how much more combat you have to plan and ration for, this is not a fun challenge, it is just torture. You've suddenly taken us from an RPG to a survival horror game. That's not a fun surprise. You can either give us a better and more reliable ability to buy things, or you can give us enemies that don't eat bullets for breakfast lunch and dinner. Since I doubt you want to change interactions with the Deep Cavern factions too much, I suggest you make the enemies more reasonable.

--CONSIDERABLY REDUCE THE DURATION OF EYE OF TCHORT. Hiding in a hole is not compelling gameplay. Making me do it for fifty seconds while this debuff wears off is simply insulting.

--LET ME READ THE DAMN MUTAGEN SCANNER WITHOUT STACKING EYE OF TCHORT. I think someone else already suggested this. Allow me to repeat their request to stop the counter while the player is reading. Constantly having to stop reading to go hide in a hole adds nothing but tedium and annoyance.

I think these suggestions are reasonably simple and they would go a long way to removing the joyless slog from the Deep Caverns without removing legitimate challenge. Please consider it, Styg; this horrible place is currently not a fitting end to this wonderful game, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so.

43
General / Re: SMG build questions
« on: January 05, 2016, 06:09:11 pm »

8)Lockpicking\Hacking 100 is enough right? Didnt see more than that for now.

9) What is the best shield for this build? I use double high for now.



8. You will not see higher than that for a very long time, but at endgame there are lockpicking/hacking checks up to 130-135.

9. Whatever gives you the most trouble.  ;)  For me it is surprise knife/crossbow assholes and melee creatures, so I went on the low side. If you are sneaking around in stealth you probably won't get surprised by Lurkers and Crawlers, so feel free to keep double high if it's helpful.

44
I did the exact same things with the only difference being that I let them kill Buzzer and didn't touch any of the plasma sentries (I did have to kill the kamikaze bots though, thx truesight) and I got a friendly result.

The original steam thread had a guy reporting that he did a replay where the only thing he did differently was let them kill Buzzer and it got him the friendly ending -- I believe that's what got people on the steam forums thinking that saving Buzzer and/or messing with the sentries locks you out of the friendly ending. Not sure if it's a bug or intended, so 'official' word would probably be very welcome.

e: discussion starts here. There are at least 2 other threads on the first page of the steam forums discussing this same question now, I think... so yea, it's a Hot Topic(tm)

Oh indeed, I am very familiar with those threads as I kept going back to them hoping they would figure out what I did wrong! But if "letting the Faceless kill Buzzer" is really the missing magic ingredient here, I think it's a poor and nonsensical design choice. It forces the player to intentionally fail a quest if they want a good result for something else they (if a first-time player) aren't even aware of yet. As you say, official clarification would be very welcome, and frankly I am hoping it's a bug.

45
General / Re: I don't understand Cryogas Grenade
« on: January 05, 2016, 06:17:19 am »
I mostly agree. However, there is one fight in particular where the long delay and long lasting nature of the gas cloud could be of use, and that is a certain fight in a certain warehouse with tight corridors and waves of enemies.

There may be places in the game where you would be able to chuck a grenade from stealth into a small room, then shut the door on a creature or lock it on human enemies so they are forced to stand around in the cloud. But I have yet to find such an encounter.

In general I don't feel they have as much utility as I hoped.

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