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Builds / Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Last post by Drizzle on Today at 12:28:25 am »
Hammer Wizard works because its max strength has a twofold use - Balor's and Corporeal Projection. When you use any other psi school that isn't PK, strength drops in usefulness and it's harder to justify max strength when you could get more mobility or better psi. Hammer also works best as a tank build because Fancy Footwork has minimal utility with only 3 strikes at most on a 50 AP turn, and Hit and Run is affected by Armor Penalty. You're reduced to only a couple of choices for MP: Sprint, Super Steel armor (which makes you more vulnerable to melee compared to Tungsten), Jumping Beans, Contraction, and Escape Artist which needs too much investment for little reward (7 Dex AND specialization points to get MP, not to mention it's on a cooldown and is entirely conditional unlike Sprint). Even if you were to go for SS armor and minmaxed everything, you'd barely scratch the low end of 100 MP for a couple turns, and you'd be giving up a few key things that hammer builds like to go for. Really, just lower Strength a little bit for Wil, stick to a tungsten or TiChrome hammer, and only use Balor's when buffed with Vitality Powder (situational but still useful).

Dexterity should be 3 for hammers unless you're building for crits, but that requires a *very* specific build which leaves your melee capabilities lacking compared to a hammer wizard. Tanks just don't really get much use out of initiative - you're not an alpha striker. Quick Pockets is simply SHIT and should not be taken on most builds. Grenadier makes it so you rely too heavily on grenades instead of using your build to damage shit. Trigger Happy should only be taken if you're challenging yourself with Ironman, otherwise savescumming will do if you really need to go first, and you don't because you're a tank. Staying with the initiative feats, Paranoia is overrated because of the wide availability of Detection boosting buffs and equipment and its only upside is not having any requirements to get 5 extra initiative; and let me tell you, 5 points won't make that much difference by themselves.

Even if you're to go for Super Steel armor, I would still recommend Sprint. It helps so much as a gap closer. The only time I would not get Sprint on a tank is if my stat spread simply does not allow me to get 6 Agi without sacrificing other feats that I consider more important.

9 Con is mandatory, full stop. 10 Con for Thick Skull is optional, I don't consider it as good on a tank as on a dodge evasion build, but even there, Bullheads will cover you for the harder fights. Last Stand just gives you much needed tanking ability that will let you survive those extra turns needed to end a fight. Juggernaut, Conditioning, Stoicism, all these require decent to high Con already. And let's not forget Fast Metabolism, which makes Regeneration Vests go from amazing to god tier, and helps with psi boosters on top of that. Mechanical damage is the most common in this game by far, and anything else is far behind enough that you can prepare for it and switch out for the appropriate equipment.

You DEFINITELY want 7 Wil for Stoicism. Even hammer berserkers get it, it's not to be underestimated. It will also help with damage for MT, which even if you got mostly for Pyromaniac and the non-scaling spells, you will still find yourself using it often for ranged damage. There's no workaround, all builds want a ranged option. And as a certain boar has said, 3 Dex Throwing is still useful, mainly because hammer as a weapon is very low on feat and skill point requirements so they can get a lot of shit as they want. Higher Wil will make your MT stronger, but it will also take away from your other stats which will see higher use.

6 Int is of course needed on a SS tank. It might still be good on a tungsten tank due to Premeditation, but otherwise, 5 Int is the minimum: you absolutely want Expose Weakness.

If you want to wear the Praetorian Lawgiver, it's best on a tungsten tank. It will hamper your mobility too much on a SS tank. Besides, Yell is already good enough with its specialization bringing it to 50% of Intimidation score. Besides, your helmet slot will be better spent on a psi headband.



I'll give you the 101 on Metathermics. Cold spells: SHIT. Thermodinamicity will not justify itself unless you're focusing on psi, in which case just play a pure psi build.

Cryostasis affects ONE target for TWO turns unless you get Cryogenic Induction, but what the hell are you doing specializing in single target CC/damage when Underrail has 6+ enemy NPCs on average every fight? And add a high psi point cost and cooldown on top of that, it's awful. I have never used this spell.
Cryokinesis is "decent" if you're a Psychosis pure psion, but you're not.
Cryo Orb is the only good cold spell, and guess what: it needs Psionic Mania or it just won't be worth a slot compared to a fire spell.
Cryogenic Barrier - I don't think I need to explain why it sucks.
Cryo Shield - why are you relying on a 50% chance to protect you from only MELEE damage when you're a tank?

Now take a look at fire spells.

Pyrokinesis isn't very good for damage unless you're a crit build, but with Pyromaniac, it still kinda works as an AoE fear. I say kinda because it's still only a 50% chance. Good with Premeditation though.
Pyrokinetic Stream is the outlier in fire, being not very good and needing you to specialize in it for it to be any good. It's still an okay last ditch attempt at fear early game if you've got Pyromaniac.
Exothermic Aura is great, giving you fire immunity and screwing with meele NPC AI. And it's budget Escape Artist with its ability to burn a net.
Thermodynamic Destabilization is fucking amazing; when applied from full HP, it will severely injure if not outright kill other NPCs when it goes off. And if you're a tungsten tank, you will resist most of its damage, giving you no reason not to close in for the kill. SS tanks can also resist most of it but only late game. This is the one spell that you want to max Metathermics for if you're still doubting.
Plasma Beam was a great addition to MT, giving you energy damage to deal with those pesky bots. Unfortunately, it won't see much use on a hammer build outside of hoards of bots where you want AoE damage, or Fetid Marsh. It's still a better use of a slot than Cryokinesis or Pyro Stream.
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Bugs / Re: Did not Receive Bioinvestigative Belt after completing all Insitute quests
« Last post by Dungeonfrog on September 17, 2021, 11:57:56 pm »
Now that you mention it, I also did not receive this ite under the same circumstances.
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General / Re: Diedrick and Ryl random event
« Last post by Easy on September 17, 2021, 09:50:45 pm »
I've seen them a few times super early on dominating, I think once on the way to mushroom cove and once in the basement of the largest SGS outpost. Skipped them the first time after getting my ass kicked on several attempts. The second time, was able to go back a few levels later, at like 5 or 6, and the fight wasn't that bad between manually entering combat and using some molotovs.
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Suggestions / Re: area suggestions for the final update
« Last post by harperfan7 on September 17, 2021, 07:24:31 pm »
I have considered a catwalks map you have to traverse while being attacked by his tentacles before reaching him; would force you to actually deal with the tentacles unlike 95% of Big T fights.
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Suggestions / Re: area suggestions for the final update
« Last post by ShoggothWhisperer on September 17, 2021, 07:07:15 pm »
It would be nice if another zone or two was added in the mutagen tanks after the electric ladder. Like, you descend the ladder and then have to fight through a maze of fleshy barriers that can be destroyed with biocide grenades while fighting off attacks from tentacles, or you can take a longer way around that doesn’t require you to use biocide grenades. Another area could be accessed after you destroy the eye of the final boss, as a second phase of the fight. You crawl inside the hole left behind by the eye and fight against the heart, where you use biocide grenades to damage it while fending off waves of tchortlings and tentacles.
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Suggestions / area suggestions for the final update
« Last post by harperfan7 on September 17, 2021, 06:47:20 pm »
If When you add omega station to the game, I think it would be neat if the entire station was pitch dark with no power, so you have to bring light sources/NV in order to explore.  If not omega, then a multi-level dungeon or series of maps somewhere, maybe in infusion.  If omega, have a str 20 check to open one of the unpowered gates (maybe have it be slightly cracked open now; could be str 16-20, but there's tons of str buffs now), maybe in addition to that beetle map east of the rig with a mysterious wall that totally isn't a secret back entrance.

In DC right before the labrynth there is a cave full of rathounds.  Near the labrynth entrance there is a small crevice that you have to go around; why not make that an agility check to jump over? 

In the river map right outside Oculus, an agility check to jump the river at the south end near the rail crossing train map exit.  Make it a higher one, like 10, and maybe keep that siphoner on the other side from jumping out until you get across.

There are a handful of areas in the game that repeat players pretty much always avoid unless they are playing on classic or are hunting down specific enemy drops.  Assuming you haven't done so already, I suggest making these locations for random encounter containers (like the mushroom brew bag or one of those hacking boxes, or a dead body).  The early-game upper caves burrower map is the first one that comes to mind.  The lower passages death-stalker map, the black crawler lair, hopper island, etc, would all be decent ones.

In the early game, especially in the areas closer to SGS, maybe add random encounters of rathounds, psi beetles, mole crickets, stalkers (not death-stalkers), etc, maybe only on hard and/or dom.  That crossroads map outside omega's main entrance (from GMS, one map east then north) seems like a good spot for random encounters (of any kind, not just fights) but I've never seen any there. 

In lower underrail maps with roads, there are sewer grates along the sides of the roads.  If you think it's worth your time, maybe make one of those a perception or strength check to enter, with a tunnel down there.  Maybe a short vents-style area with some random loot/enemies/traps.  Or maybe make it connect to the under-passages?

A random fragment with a mole-cricket horde/hive and a queen boss who drops a 1 point oddity?  I know mole crickets are meant to be the merest of early-game obstacles, but a surprise map that makes them kinda challenging would be neat, I think.

Adding a guaranteed, but randomized-location item/container in the early game in places repeat players usually never go to. 
Like: on the old jonas map in those little dead-ends, in the outposts behind the buildings, sgs in unmarked container in unused area, under/across from the sgs train station, etc
Tying in to that:
Have you considered unique footwear?  For instance a pair of old-world sneakers? 
Unique helmets?  Like a dirt-bike or motorcycle helmet?
Either could make good early game loot; I could see sneakers giving +2-5 to persuasion for a nice almost unique bonus. 

Speaking of unmarked containers in sgs, you could add something helpful to 1st level characters for the outposts quest, like a small amount of 5mm jhp, or a mining helmet.
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General / Re: Diedrick and Ryl random event
« Last post by RewRatt on September 17, 2021, 05:51:13 pm »
Never had them appear. How are they in Dominating if you get to meet them early on? I suspect they should be quite hard, but the benefits are really good.
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Builds / Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Last post by Hammer Wizard on September 17, 2021, 04:59:05 pm »
>I really doubt that stoicism is that good
HERESY! Stoicism is probably one of the best feats in the game, and probably has the best specialization of the whole game.
Any tank build that can actually get it will automatically become much superior.

>And stoicism does nothing for casting
It doesnt need to, it makes you stupidly hard to kill, giving you more turns to survive and throw more grenades and MT spells

>7 will is nice even better 8 will and psionic mania
You dont need it

>Losing the initiative is not fun.
You're playing a tin can hammer build, having rock bottom initiative is the normal thing to happen.
If you want to have initiative, play literally anything else, this build is not a hare, but a tortoise. Play like it.

>Trying to enter combat manually every time is not fun.
Only if there are thought controllers around, then otherwise you dont really need to manually start combat, you can roll last on an entire fight and survive just fine

>3 will is point economy.
Might as well add TM since you will get a better point action economy.
You will add to a very basic generalist build.
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General / Diedrick and Ryl random event
« Last post by xnmh on September 17, 2021, 12:14:59 pm »
This is a pretty good random event i've had happen three times so far on different playthroughs.

First you get 3 tactical vests, a shotgun, a sledgehammer and a smg right at the start of the game if your lucky, 200 charons when you go to junkyard after completing the event (you can do this at the start of the game)

And later on in core city you get Diedrick as a merchant, and he sells a decent amount of mk IV grenades as well as q~90 electronics and if I remember correctly he can also convert your SGS credits into charons at a fair rate via manual trading

(Though this was when I refused to accept their 200 charons in junkyard, if you accept them this might be different, haven't tried it)

Anyways, what other good random events do you all know of? Another one I like is the fight with Dandy Jack, Steelhead and their minions, there are quite a few enemies and its a pretty tough fight, but if you win you get 2 super soldier drugs and alot of gear to sell.
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Builds / Re: A blind laser pistol build (aka Stormtrooper)
« Last post by RewRatt on September 17, 2021, 09:47:11 am »
Thanks for the responses guys. I'd like to take the opportunity to also thank you, RewRatt, for your amazing builds and videos that helped me a lot. Your TC/TM trapper is amazing and perhaps the most well-rounded psi build I've found, and your chem pistol build convinced me that going all-in with dexterity is the right way for pistol builds - I just prefer the range of the laser to the otherwise totally amazing chem pistols.
Thanks dude. You don't know how nice it is to hear that 😊 I love this game and community is the greatest I've ever been a part of.
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