A few Psi related questions

[Easyprey]

Hi, y'all.

I'm messing around with a possible Psi build. I know is common to copy other's build as a reference but I don't do that, I prefer to understand how things are supposed to work.

So a couple of questions came up:

- Several talents use a wording that seems to exclude psi form their benefits (Opportunist, Ambush, Blindsiding), is that right? I mean, are these talents useless to a psi user? Generally speaking, does psi damage have to be specifically included by the wording of an effect to be taken into account?

- Since playing psi essentially means having a kind of a second AP bar to manage in addition to the standard one, is there any point in taking the usual 70 points in Temporal Manipulation?
As I see it, adding a third school to the mix (I'm assuming a 2 schools build here, MT&PK ) would increase the general cost of spells and also would probably eat up your premeditation with Contraction (on non Psi focused build Contraction is just free AP ), both things increasing your psi expenses and thus ultimately countering the whole point of picking 70 TM, i.e. to be able to cast more spells per turn.

-As consequence of of the previous question, is there any point in off-speccing 70 points in either Psychokinesis or Thought Control? (thinking always of two schools builds here, either PK&MT/TM or TC&MT/TM). I'm leaving out MT as I don't see a point in half-assing that one.
I can see 70 TC being useful for Locus control and some additional crowd control.
70 PK doesn't seem much worth though.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Eidein]

1. Yes those talents are pointless as psi.

2. Yes having 70 tm for stasis and 55 for contraction is overpowered still. Most fights you will just innervate TM and another school, mixing and matching different schools depending on the circumstance. Psi points really aren't such a big deal for psi builds, Tranquillity has a muffled headband and the meditation feat and Psychosis has the Hemopsychosis feat. Even quadpsi builds don't innervate all the schools at once.

3. Putting 70 points into TC just for locus is a good idea, its basically a better thick skull. PK also has some decent utility abilities like telekinetic grounding and electrokinetic imprint for 30 and 45 points respectfully. MT is nice with a minimum of 35 early, you get to spam cryokinesis for the first 6 levels which trivialises all early encounters (beetles and gms) and then you get cryostasis which is a un-resistible incap that is used through the entire game. TM you either take 70 for stasis or if you plan on using it for bots like 130-160. Ive found that with a headband, 130 skill is enough to kill everything with temporal distortion spam I dont see the need in the extra 30 base points.

So if you were running a TC TM build you would have 160 TC,45 PK, 35 MT, and 130-160 TM.

[Easyprey]

Thanks for your reply.

Psi points really aren't such a big deal for psi builds,

My limited experience with that wasn't very smooth. I started a tranquillity build and in the first 10 levels, despite mufflers and flexibility talent, I did run low on psi points quite a few times.
It was okay-ish, just not great.

MT is nice with a minimum of 35 early, you get to spam cryokinesis for the first 6 levels which trivialises all early encounters (beetles and gms) and then you get cryostasis which is a un-resistible incap that is used through the entire game.

I would hate to pick 35 points just for the early game, I'll consider them wasted later on, even if they were needed for that build to survive the first levels.
Also I didn't really get much use of cryostasis, maybe because I wasn't playing on dominating.
I find it expensive, unreliable (bots and enemis resist to cold) and not really worth the slot, even with cryogenic induction for shattering it.

I did read your guide already. 

[Eidein]

Cryostasis is good because you can do damage, cryostasis, and leave combat. Making fights with lone enemies like Vilmer or the camera guy in the protectorate embassy trivial. It remains useful for bosses later, on a full-psi build you wont really be shattering enemies with cryo-induction unless you have a good enough TK punch.

Like I said before a lot of spells are pretty situational so its not something you would have innervated the entire time. 35 points isn't a particularly crazy investment I do it because I generally play on ironman so having strong stuff early is important.

The psi points issue might be because you are innervating more than 2-3 schools or have bad quality mufflers. Remember also to have a filter for whatever damage spell you are primarily using on your headband. More damage = less casts, so it will save you a lot of psi in the long run combined with mufflers. With TM you can also spam boosters like your life depends on it (it does) with limited temporal increment.

[Easyprey]

Like I said before a lot of spells are pretty situational so its not something you would have innervated the entire time. 35 points isn't a particularly crazy investment I do it because I generally play on ironman so having strong stuff early is important.

I totally get that, it's just not my cup of tea, I guess.

The psi points issue might be because you are innervating more than 2-3 schools or have bad quality mufflers. Remember also to have a filter for whatever damage spell you are primarily using on your headband. More damage = less casts, so it will save you a lot of psi in the long run combined with mufflers. With TM you can also spam boosters like your life depends on it (it does) with limited temporal increment.

I was running a two school tranquillity build, MT & TK on Hard.
It wasn't terrible, and surely my build wasn't optimized yet (I aborted the game because I inadvertently messed up the Oculus questline), as I said it just wasn't great considering my innervation was at 100%, I had my 12% mufflers, meditation & thermodynamicity (albeit no fast metabolism).
Thinking about it, maybe the real problem was on the other end of the stick and I was just doing too little damaged per spell.

Cryostasis is good because you can do damage, cryostasis, and leave combat. Making fights with lone enemies like Vilmer or the camera guy in the protectorate embassy trivial. It remains useful for bosses later, on a full-psi build you wont really be shattering enemies with cryo-induction unless you have a good enough TK punch.

I can see how that could be useful, especially with high health enemies and especially if you need to keep it quiet.

[Eidein]

12% mufflers are pretty terrible considering it goes to 35%

[Easyprey]

My limited experience with that wasn't very smooth. I started a tranquillity build and in the first 10 levels

t wasn't terrible, and surely my build wasn't optimized yet (I aborted the game because I inadvertently messed up the Oculus questline), as I said it just wasn't great considering my innervation was at 100%, I had my 12% mufflers, meditation & thermodynamicity (albeit no fast metabolism).

If it wasn't clear, I was level 10, an those were my first mufflers.

[Eidein]

Ah, I see. Yeah you were probably correct to abandon the playthrough early since you screwed up oculus. Psi does have more issues with psi points in the early game than late game for sure, especially with multiple schools innervated.