Melee & Gun hybrids?

[Zonermaxxer]

So, it's common knowledge that Underrail rewards builds that stick to one form of dealing damage, be it pokey sticks, dakka-dakka sticks or magic sticks.

HOWEVER, Isn't it cool to play badass character that is deadly in every scenario? Of course it is.

Psi-melee hybrids are very achievable, Psi-ranged - less so, but I still can picture a few builds that work. But I can't come up with a build that uses ranged and melee weapon.

Maybe some of you madlads have cooked something up? Even if it's barely viable

Pls no "Akhtually, it's really bad to mix wepaons " posts. Of course it's terrible idea. That's why we are here.

Also, I personally wouldn't consider Versatility builds fitting. Since you don't really use melee weapons with them, melee skill serves only as a loophole for ranged skill. UNLESS there is some hybrid strategy involved, like building up a ton of bleeds with 7.62 micro-shrapnel ammo on Smg and popping it with Taste of Blood & Eviscerate Knife (maybe I'm onto something there?)

[NumberTJ47]

If you don't want to use Versatility then you could use a dexterity based build that uses either pistols, SMGs, energy pistols, or blob pistols because they're all light weapons. Your melee weapon would also be a light weapons, so unarmed, fists, or knives. So yeah, the taste of blood idea seems solid. I'm certain it's possible to beat dominating with a build like this, but I personally don't think I'd find it that interesting because it wouldn't play much different from a Versatility build.

You could also use a minigun build. Heavy guns scale with perception but require strength. It'd probably be fine to put some points into melee, especially if it's a melee weapon that'd compensate for the minigun's shortcomings. I haven't played with heavy guns enough to know for sure which melee weapon would be good, but the sledgehammer seems like a decent bet.

Also, I wouldn't say that underrail punishes you for using more than one weapon, it punishes you for not choosing a primary weapon. Ignoring throwables and traps, grenade launchers and blob pistols don't take much investment to be situationally useful. If you have skill points in guns and have strength, grab a grenade launcher for extra AoE and the stun from Concussive Grenades. If you have dexterity instead then you can grab a blob pistol and you suddenly have access to acid damage and a root, a DoT heat damage gun, or a weapon that can slow and freeze targets.

I've actually played a few swords builds that rely on versatility for the grenade launcher, and I'm testing a sword + energy pistol build right now. Energy pistols do require quite a bit of investment to be good, so I'm not sure how it'll go.

[harperfan7]

The only legit build Ive ever seen that combines melee and guns in a way where you actually use both is a strength-versatility heavy metal build.  It has quake or balors in one hand, and an lmg or minigun in the other.  Quake for AoE melee, like when surrounded by numerous weak enemies like burrower spawn, but mainly balors for the bigdick mech reduction (you have to switch to it at the end of every turn).  One thing I disliked about the first heavy guns build I played was that when you have one or two weak enemies to kill, or some melee'er in your face, it sucks to waste a burst on them (and you have close-quarters penalties too), so having a hammer to bonk them with is really nice. 

For one, strength versatility really works here; heavy guns need to split up between str, con, and per.  This makes it a lot simpler; you max str and get however much con and per you need for feats, and it doesnt matter if you wear a shaded visor helmet, drink brew, etc; you arent using per.  You need high str for balors anyway.  You can even use the industrial exoskeleton (big str boost, mp that ignores armor penalty) since you have such higher reduction and generally wont *need* the best armor.  You can even wear a lifting belt since you dont need to reload very often with the big guns (but for the bigger fights you better stick to a bullet belt).  All the strength boosts will directly help your heavy guns accuracy and damage; you can legitimately have 28 strength while attacking with a gun. 

[Eidein]

SMG/Knife is a pretty good combo together. Still complete vanity since one is better without the other but still good together.

[harperfan7]

the problem with smg/knife is why would you ever use the knife?

[Eidein]

I would say the opposite, why use the smg? But yeah like I said, its vanity, if you were playing and building optimally you would only ever use one.

[Zonermaxxer]

The only legit build Ive ever seen that combines melee and guns in a way where you actually use both is a strength-versatility heavy metal build.  It has quake or balors in one hand, and an lmg or minigun in the other.

This is probably one of the most promising ones. Versatility heavy guns (tank) build seems to be able to achieve more ranged skill than a non versatility-one, and having a clean-up weapon that doesn't ruin "Heavy Metal" maybe not technically required, but sure as hell appreciated. As far as I know, however, heavy guns don't have melee penalty, do they?

Not having access to Concentrated Fire seems like a big hit to minigun's single-target perfomance, however. And Heavy guns do have some (seemingly) nice specs that will have to be sacrificed into Versatility.

Still, build sounds solid.

I would say the opposite, why use the smg? But yeah like I said, its vanity, if you were playing and building optimally you would only ever use one.

Pretty much it. Skill allocation of Versatility SMG build can allow for some knife play and vice-versa, but knives require a lot of feats to get going. If you do get those feats, however, they become so good that off-hand SMG will sit there for vanity and those 2-3 Sea Wyrm fights in mainland that you can't melee.

[harperfan7]

As far as I know, however, heavy guns don't have melee penalty, do they?

Guess they don't, but your burst angle will only hit the guy youre shooting if you have multiple enemies in melee range, like when youre surrounded.  However, if youre using balors, you have at minimum 24ap per attack (but probably 25) unless you use pummel, vs an lmgs 25, so it isnt saving you any ap, but quake can quake (and theres blast caps); and of course a minigun *can* get down to 4ap so its really not helpful if youre revved up.  Still, I hate to burst for one guy. 
Also, sometimes youre in a fight with allies or there are otherwise some potential targets youd rather not hit; positioning can be a big issue with lmgs since they are burst-only.  Having a single target weapon available can save you headaches.

Losing conc fire on heavy guns is no biggie; they do so much damage already that you can skip half the damage boosts and still womp everything.

I tried a "minigun build" as my first HD run, before the minigun buff, and it wasnt fun.  I then ran the str vers build up to 25th or so, though I never got far enough to use balors or to upgrade my gun from the brno.  Still, the str vers one was much nicer to play.