Messages

16

Suggestions / Re: Sorry (negative post)

« on: March 09, 2014, 12:50:23 am »

On my first try i skilled the wrong way

That's the second, no the third, thing I really don't like. There is like one skillset that works, every other skillset just sents you failing.
I think games that force you on a specific way of playing are absolute fun-stopper. For me failing was never and will never be fun.

They way it is right now, it sure does look like I wasted my money with.

fakum12, this is false. No, not only its false its, in fact, quite the opposite.
I have finished the game plenty of times with very different builds.


 

17

Suggestions / Re: Retrainer (level reset)

« on: February 20, 2014, 02:54:11 pm »

Save often, have multiple saves and be happy.

I usually have 4 saves for each character. I do a save circle between 3 of them and the 4th i only use it at the end of each gaming session.
This is very useful when playing either old or buggy games.

18

Suggestions / Re: Concerning skills and crafting

« on: February 09, 2014, 05:41:06 pm »

Oh okay, well alchemy is pretty cool when done right, and if it wasn't for the lack of stat ceiling it would have been perfect in morrowind.
Still its pretty good if you control yourself 

19

Suggestions / Re: Concerning skills and crafting

« on: February 09, 2014, 04:51:35 pm »

Not even Thief?

20

Suggestions / Re: Concerning skills and crafting

« on: February 09, 2014, 04:08:09 pm »

I don't know what game TES actually is (although I could know it if I really wanted to goggle it but I'm lazy) however it's a bethesda game and that alone should make me hate it cause I hate bethesda and think the company should burn for the atrocities it made to fallout... Anyway.

I can very much relate to Elhazzared position. Bethesda not only ruined they're own franchise they also had to ruin Fallout.
I liked morrowind despite the many flaws the game had but oblivion was a huge disappointment and i wouldn't touch skyrim with a long pole, even if it is better than oblivion. in some aspects.

About alchemy in morrowind, it was great. A pity it was broken and you could become the most powerful being in all Tamriel with level 1 just by abusing it. But i do admit collecting herbs, mixing ingredients and coming out with potions (some with drawbacks) was great fun.
I don't see, however, how could this benefit Underrail.

Back on topic, i agree with JohnyCrown on his second suggestion.

Suggestion 2
Make it so the random craft components are generally lower at early parts of the game (maybe they are but they seem to still be too high in too many cases).  Maybe make a stop gap of 20-25 for parts up till Junkyard then maybe up to 40-45 till rail crossing and so on so the components can match the average crafting skill if 5 points were to be invested at each level up.

EDIT 1: Elhazzared, TES worlds are very open and you can find ingredients everywhere. You don't have to go back to get them because to get them, because not only they are abundant and have substitutes, but also because the game doesn't lead you through a linear path.

EDIT 2:

I actually hate elder scrolls for the simple fact that any game that has mellee combat should not be made first person... But that's me anyway...

Really? Then you never played Ultima Underworld nor Arx Fatalis?

Linear paths end up being less boring because they don't require you to backtrack.

Unless there are inventory restrictions, right? 

21

General / Re: Hi people of Underrail :)

« on: February 08, 2014, 03:16:39 pm »

Welcome aboard Mac Orion.

22

Discussions / Re: just published my first novel, cover inside

« on: February 08, 2014, 12:10:49 am »

Congrats!
Iron Tower Studios? So you are working on age of decadence?

23

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #28: Energy Shields

« on: February 03, 2014, 01:26:55 am »

I assumed as much, because i was trying it.
Thanks for the reply.

24

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released

« on: February 03, 2014, 01:24:38 am »

Don't worry, I also like to argue.

Phew, i am glad you do.

About the trap vs grenades. For me the biggest advantage is that traps are much more stealth friendly, and you can also use them with grenades. After playing the game for a while the enemy pathfinding becomes a little more predictable so i have a easy time placing them. Its also very common to see mine blasts hitting more than one enemy. Even better traps explosions can trip other traps for more fun.

I also enjoy going everywhere, exploring everything, but if I am not rewarded for doing that then why am I bothering myself to do so? Why should I go explore that cave that has nothing of interest?...

Exploration should indeed be rewarded either with information or with nice loot. I know you don't like it but the oddity system rewards exploration. Now the problem with the lack of reward isn't tied down to the economy restrictions, but the lack of exotic items.

And while you can say that this makes the game better I'm sure that if you were to ask to most people who liked old school RPGs they wouldn't like this. We are but a minory here in the foruns. A game doesn't has to be fun for everyone, but it shouldn't include mechanics that the majority doesn't likes. If you ask all RPGers if they like mechanics that will waste their time, what do you think the answer is?..

Most people i know like this sort of stuff. This game isn't being crafted to please the majority, if it was we would have a RTwP combat and romanceable NPCs. I am supposing that this is what the majority wants. And this mechanics are not designed to waste peoples time. Some people chose to waste their own time without any need to.
Much more annoying to me is a broken economy, and i don't know who else feels this way. I really don't know how many people like this or that, but i do know what i do like. I have seen games designed for the masses for years and i hated them. I am very happy that now with the indie movement i am being showered by games with exactly everything i like.
Sorry i don't mean that power gamer is a bad thing, i just think that a game should not be designed around a power gamer.
Picking just the most profitable solution is not what i find fun about RPGs. But that's me.

Yes sure you can say that you don't need the loot or whatever but that detracts from the experience since it removes the reward for doing something and as such makes not want to waste the time...

If i am at maximum capacity and i find a neat item that is a little heavy, i drop some stuff and take that one with me instead.

I didn't say crafting was useless, I said mostly useless.

Oh sorry really thought you did.
About Shadowrun, yes it has those flaws. I guess the whole point of the game was to be something like NWN. The OC would be just a demonstration and the power would be in the editor and fan made content, but so far it hasn't been great on that end.

In the real world you deal with supply and demand, but why would that need to sweep into a game? Why would a game have you bother to deal with it if that serves no practical purpose other than A) lose money for no good reason. B) lose so much time that completly kills the want to play the game in order to sell items?

But you have to understand why Styg added this. Its not to make underrail a simulation of real life tradings. Its just a game mechanic to avoid the economy breaking too soon, and becoming a meaningless aspect of the game. In my opinion, that's a very good reason.
The time you lose is due to your own decision. The game doesn't force you to do that, nor does it reward you. Yet you do. Let it go. Try it. Be free and let it go.

Then you go on exagerating. Obviously I'm not a weapon smuggler though I agree my life would probably be a lot more fun and I'd probably have much more money too...

And aren't you glad that i did? Also i am not sure that its obvious that you are not a gun smuggler.

25

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #28: Energy Shields

« on: February 03, 2014, 12:13:52 am »

The shields sound very interestingly. I like the fact that you each shield only works against a specific kind of damage. I can see many interesting combos already.
"Lightning Punches - now works with fist weapons as well"
I am a fan of this change. But i am just curious what made it change your mind over this?

The stuff about lightning punches is intended. I still want to give little something to completely unarmed builds.

"Force User - now increases Telekinetic Punch damage by 100% (up from 20%) and Force Field duration by 2 turns (up from 1)"
I usually took this feat already but mostly for the extended Force Field duration. Seems much more appealing now.

Thanks for the update Styg.

26

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released

« on: February 02, 2014, 11:45:45 pm »

Oh so i see, crafting traps has no flaw other than the fact that allows you to craft traps.

Now it's not, quite frankly you could say that this system encourages you to do no more than the main quest line because really, who needs the extra junk? Why even bother to look for more cool stuff I could gain when it will just be worthless weight?.. The disussion is of course over the current version of underrail, what is wrong and right with it and how can it be made better. Obviously i'll push for anything that will make it better.

Only if you are a power gamer. I enjoy searching every area and doing every quest i can find. Just because someone doesn't bring everything that isn't glued to the ground with him doesn't mean that he doesn't like to explore.

Obviously i'll push for anything that will make it better.

Objectively, no you wont. You will push it towards what you find to be more fun. And that's quite okay, but even if fun can be objectively defined (something that is amusing or enjoyable : an enjoyable experience) its is very subjective since it depends on the subject. What might be fun to some might not be fun to another.

Last you go on exagerating things to prove a point which doesn't really helps. I still am right when I say that somethings must make a gammy sense because a real world sense hurt the game... Do you want the game to be a real life simulator? I belive that for that, I can just live my own life and quite frankly, I'd get the same experiences. A game is supposed to be fun, not have overly annoying and frustating mechanics that only waste everyone's time or just make the game overall, less enjoyable.

I beg to differ. You are the one who seems to be quite found of ad absurdum fallacies. Those examples i presented are hardly exaggerations since they are common in many computer games including successful (and some less successful) rpgs. Exaggerations is when you say that crafting is useless, or when you misuse the word never, or when you state that the game is no longer objectively fun because there is a weight limit and vendors no longer buy everything you picked, even though you get much more cash than in previous versions where these restrictions didn't take place.
Harebrained Schemes exaggerate when they created Shadow Run?

Do you want the game to be a real life simulator?

Hum, no. Is that the difference between having vendors buying everything you want and vendors that have specific needs?

I belive that for that, I can just live my own life and quite frankly, I'd get the same experiences.

Do you mean that you constantly struggle with the weight of firearms when you go on your way to sell them on real life? Are you an arms dealer? Your life sounds exciting!

I don't have a problem with you liking the new economy. If you like being able to just go at it while not really having to search everything, exploring, really give much of a crap about anything and just get to the end in a blitz, that's your perrogative. Personally I prefer a game that will reward me for going out of the way to find more loot and doing more quest and explore every little bit of the map.

But why do you assume that i rush through the game. Exploring the whole map and bringing everything with you while you do it are two separate things, and believe it or not, they can exist without each other.

Sorry for keeping pushing you, over and over.
I like to argue and its quite beneficial in my line of work to keep at it if only to get better.
Its quite hard for me to resist replying when opinions are stated as facts, or when fallacies are introduced.

27

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released

« on: February 02, 2014, 09:46:20 pm »

Making traps is either bad or just not worth it.

Why? Why is that crafting grenades is so great and traps are so bad when they are quite similar? I had a character that used traps quite often and so crafting them was quite welcome. Not only i ended up with more traps than i would if i had only had bough them, as i also got traps that were much better than the ones for sale.

And yes it's a waste cause those guns would have been worth a lot of money, the merchant should just buy it.

The discussion of if it is or not a waste should be about Underrail in its current version and not the one that you would like to exist.

this is a game, some things must make a gammy sense, not a real world sense in order to make the game good.

But you don't get to say what should make "gammy sense" or "real world sense". Obviously this boils down to features you don't like. If you don't like them and they are also realistic or consistent with the game world, they should be replaced with a gammy approach.
What about ammo? Why should we have one type of ammo for each weapon? Why not just a universal ammo solution like the one found in Deus Ex 2? Would that make the game better?
Why should we have ammo at all? The player will just keep getting no matter what so the risk of running out of ammo is almost null, and having to look for a store that has the specific ammo you want is just annoying right?
We should have unlimited ammo like in Shadow Run. That would make the game better?
Since we are at it we should remove reloading. Reloading always comes at unfortunate times, and breaks the pace of the combat. Removing would make the game much better?

All these gamey features i mentioned are not inherently bad. They make sense on certain games.
They don't make as much sense on Underrail. Because they don't help portray a post apocalyptic environment.
There are different games for different people, and different people have fun with different games.
There seem to be plenty of things you dislike about Underrail, but these things also seem to have appeared with each update meaning that there was a time that the game was prefect for you. So you are resistant to change and fighting what this game was made to be.
I expected most of these changes before they were announced.
Because they made sense in this game and i could feel their absence.
To me Underrail is becoming a better game with each update.

28

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released

« on: February 02, 2014, 06:44:22 pm »

Crafting is cheaper? Yes, especially useful for grenades really.

Useful? But i thought crafting was USELESS! Oh well thinking on absolutes.

Crafting metal armor before the gms compound? I dunno, I've never seen it being possible because the materials are never readly available and usually when they are, they are WAY over your crafting skill.

Are NEVER readily available? That's a very strange never. But i have been doing it every time now and they are not WAY OVER my crafting skill or i would not be able to do it, time over time. Again absolutes.

If you are EXTREMELY lucky

By my experience i would say i would be EXTREMELY UNLUCKY not to get all the components i need since i usually do on my playthroughs.

Second. It isn't quite like that. By the time you leave the home base you will be able to craft better stuff than what is there, but not better stuff than is on the junkyard. When you leave the junkyard you can craft better stuff than there is on the junkyard but not better than wherever you're going next.

It varies. Depends on your int value and what components do you manage to find.

Third. Variety is not a factor when we are thinking that to craft something that has that special bonus like a scope on a crossbow, you are losing 1/3 of damage in comparison to what is available on the new town. This not to say that vendors while not always having what you are looking for in exact match, sometimes they do. It's better to do without but not lose damage or total armor and when it becomes available, trade for the good version.

That's only true according to a very specific scenario that you made up. It has not been my experience. I find it very odd that you always have such negative data on crafting when my experience says other wise. Even Styg said he had a different experience.

Forth, yes it's a waste because of the merchants! Yes you recicle items to turn them into repair kits, soon you'll be carrying god knows how many of them without a use for so much repair kit and the amount you might be able to sell to a merchant is minimal... This not to mention that it would be worth more money to simply sell the heavy item.

You didnt understand. I will explain again. Imagine if you can only sell 6 guns to the local vendors, but you found 10. You can use four to become repair kits. Is this a waste? NO! Was either that or garbage because the vendors are NOT going to buy them.

It's a game design flaw. On the other hand if you have 100 repair kits, do tell me what the heck do you need so many for. And don't forget, the numbers just keep on growing because you'll always get more than you will spend and sell.

On the other hand if you have 100 repair kits, do tell me what the heck do you need so many for. And don't forget, the numbers just keep on growing because you'll always get more than you will spend and sell.

Ad absurdum. Why would you keep doing repair kits after you have more than enough to travel safely without having to go back. Oh right by the same reason we have to go back and forth to get and sell and the loot in game?

Fifth, I actually never knew that the GMS elevator could be repaired, but then again what is the point?

Here is the point. Instead of wasting psi, emp traps/grenades on those pesky bots, you can just sneak past them and you can completely avoid them in your way back. Is it much? Not really. Some people have become trapped on the third floor because as soon as they went one level up a couple of bots would be there to welcome you back. With the elevator thing? Problem solved.

29

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: February 02, 2014, 06:16:40 pm »

And yet I think we are all forgeting the one thing Joejoefine is pointing out which is actually the same I've kept saying time and time again.

Its because it isn't there to prohibit the player of such behavior, but to discourage him.
I know that some of you cant sleep at night knowing that there is some loot out there, left behind on a dark room.
Or even worse, knowing that you wont be able to sell it all.
After i am done with a quest i move on to another, i don't go back to get all that i left behind. Why?
Well because i don't need to. Because i have more than enough, to equip myself and the game has no longer the economic problem it had before version 1.7.0.

If survival wants to be made, limit the loot, not the sales. That is what survival games do, they limit what you can get, not what you can sell.

That's not what survival games do. That's what you would like them to do. Back at Fallout merchants didn't had infinite caps so there was an amount of weapons you could sell. When they were out of caps you could trade for ammo and other things but you would eventually have weapons you wouldn't be able to sell.
I remember having to carefully select what loot i was going to leave back at the Glow, since there was no way i could bring everything with me and there was no way i would go there again.
I am sure many other games limit the amount of what you can sell because its a concept that's is hardly new to me. I cant remember what other games did this, other than the Fallout series, but i am sure there were more.

Oh and as for games being badly designed because you after a while can kick everyone's ass... Not a single game I've played has made this impossible.

Its bound to happen on open world games through power gaming or badly designed level scaling. A feature that removes, at some point, the challenge from a game is a flaw. I can recommend some games to you where such doesn't happen if you want me to.

You can make whatever you want, this will still be true and you can always go down in a fight no matter how well equipped you are

At the point i am at on Underrail Rathounds and Burrower Spawn's do zero damage to me unless they score a critical.

Also keep in mind that these features serve more purposes than increasing the difficulty (or boredom in some cases as some of you would correct me ) the weight system adds to the feeling when you are scavenging, to keep an eye open for good items and leave the useless pieces of scrap metal behind.
The fact that the vendors don't buy everything you want them to buy, and the fact they have their own needs not only makes sense, as it makes the game world more believable. Yes its not perfect right now but it is still work in progress.

I am still puzzled by the get all loot, sell all loot goal. Are some of you upset as well that you cant study
an oddity past its limit? What a waste! Don't limit how many times a player can study such oddity limit the number of oddities available? Its exactly the same thing. You got all you needed from the loot you sold, why do you care about the one you did not and could not because the vendor is stuffed with stuff?

Elhazzared, have you been keeping track of Project Eternity, now called Pillars of Eternity?
Josh Sawyer has a very different approach to games, and i believe he allows the player to
teleport extra loot directly to his stash. While i am not found of this, or other many of his decisions, maybe this game can be your cup of tea.

30

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: February 02, 2014, 05:24:27 am »

@LazyMonk - Well to be fair I think joejoe has some decent points.  The player should have some feeling of progression or even over-empowerment and/or an opportunity to excel in some gaming aspect instead of the feeling of barely scraping by at all times.   Not saying the game should be a cake walk and being able to one-shot everything to boost the ego or something.

But the game has that already. Every character i play becomes better, with more tactical opportunities to surpass hostile encounters without the game losing any challenge, and by the end of the alpha i have more cash than what i can spend. From his post i am deducing that he didn't finish the GMS compound quest, and so these points he made were not based on the game but on his suppositions of what it would feel like if he had continued playing.


When i played fallout 2 i had to handicap myself to have fun. I head to wear worse armor and kill my enemies with just my bare hands.
That's hardly a model to copy.