46
Bugs / Re: [1.0.3.20] NPC snipers are able to fire at 20 tiles/max weapon range
« on: January 07, 2018, 08:56:55 am »
Huh. Ok. I sure hope Styg decides to do something about it, 'cause that's some serious bullshit. 
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47
General / Re: Returning to the game after a long break, looking for some build suggestions
« on: January 05, 2018, 08:39:22 am »
Hilf posted some results from an accuracy test he did on the energy/chem pistol thread (http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=2008.15):
As I said in that thread, these results seem a bit strange, considering the effective skill difference is quite significant at 53 points. And because of that, I did a quick test of my own:
12 PER, 125 (210) Guns skill, Scoped Compensated 7.62 Hornet, character Focused, target is Praetorian Sniper right next to a light source, 13 tile/max sight distance = 66% chance to hit with normal attack, 33% with burst
Rapid Compensated 7.62 Jaguar, same conditions except distance is 9 tiles and less = 89% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases
15 PER, 125 (241) Guns skill, with the Hornet = 78% chance to hit with normal attack, 39% with burst
Jaguar = 90% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases
Assault Rifles (and very likely Crossbows as well, considering they have the same max range and only one tile less optimal range) seem to benefit considerably at maximum distance, but as soon as you move 2 or 3 tiles closer, chance to hit jumps to 95%, with both Perception values. Burst CTH is higher with 15 PER at all distances, although it caps at 92% with both 12 and 15 PER, the latter reaching it a tile or so sooner. Same thing with the Jaguar, although precision cap is lower than the Hornet's 92%. The Jaguar's normal attack is the weird one: it kinda seems to imply that the less range a weapon has, the less it benefits from extreme skill values.
I guess the builds that really want to max Perception for the accuracy gain are mainly burst-focused Riflemen, and crossbow users to a considerably lesser degree due to lacking burst fire. I'm fairly sure Sniper Rifles benefit even less, since they're always in optimal range.
Quote
6 perception, 125(146) guns = 78% chance to hit
11 perception, 125(199) guns = 79% chance to hit
My target was Plasma Sentry. I did another test, same setup but with flare and result was again 1% point.
As I said in that thread, these results seem a bit strange, considering the effective skill difference is quite significant at 53 points. And because of that, I did a quick test of my own:
12 PER, 125 (210) Guns skill, Scoped Compensated 7.62 Hornet, character Focused, target is Praetorian Sniper right next to a light source, 13 tile/max sight distance = 66% chance to hit with normal attack, 33% with burst
Rapid Compensated 7.62 Jaguar, same conditions except distance is 9 tiles and less = 89% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases
15 PER, 125 (241) Guns skill, with the Hornet = 78% chance to hit with normal attack, 39% with burst
Jaguar = 90% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases
Assault Rifles (and very likely Crossbows as well, considering they have the same max range and only one tile less optimal range) seem to benefit considerably at maximum distance, but as soon as you move 2 or 3 tiles closer, chance to hit jumps to 95%, with both Perception values. Burst CTH is higher with 15 PER at all distances, although it caps at 92% with both 12 and 15 PER, the latter reaching it a tile or so sooner. Same thing with the Jaguar, although precision cap is lower than the Hornet's 92%. The Jaguar's normal attack is the weird one: it kinda seems to imply that the less range a weapon has, the less it benefits from extreme skill values.
I guess the builds that really want to max Perception for the accuracy gain are mainly burst-focused Riflemen, and crossbow users to a considerably lesser degree due to lacking burst fire. I'm fairly sure Sniper Rifles benefit even less, since they're always in optimal range.
48
Bugs / [1.0.3.20] NPC snipers are able to fire at 20 tiles/max weapon range
« on: January 05, 2018, 06:14:37 am »
I was trying out a small graphical change in the Core City residential area, shooting at NPCs and looking at the animation change I've done. At one point, I started taking sniper fire from an unseen opponent. I've had enemy snipers shooting from 14 tiles, or just outside sight range, a few times before, but I always thought it was just part of the line of sight weirdness that sometimes occurs in Underrail. This time however, the sniper firing at me was nowhere near the sight range limit, but several tiles beyond that. After some quick testing it became clear that as long as the sniper had joined the combat, by me walking inside his aggro range or a stray burst hitting him, he could shoot at me without moving from as much as 20 tiles away, or the maximum sniper rifle range.
This certainly doesn't seem like intended behavior. I'm playing on Hard, in case that's important.
This certainly doesn't seem like intended behavior. I'm playing on Hard, in case that's important.
49
General / Re: Returning to the game after a long break, looking for some build suggestions
« on: January 03, 2018, 05:50:11 am »
With 7 INT and the workbench crafting bonuses from the player's house, that build should have enough Mechanics, Tailoring and Electronics at least to craft from most pre-DC components, though probably not before the last few levels, unless you prioritize them over other skills.
50
General / Re: Returning to the game after a long break, looking for some build suggestions
« on: January 01, 2018, 05:55:59 pm »Those hacking/lockpick values seem pretty low, is there something I'm missing or is it a conscious decision to ignore some of the higher tier locks?
Always remember to take into account Jackknife and Lockpicks/Haxxors/Huxkey when determining the amount of points you're going to put into Lockpicking and Hacking. In the builds I posted, there's a lot of room to take points from Dodge to boost Subterfuge skills. That said, currently the highest Lockpicking checks go only up to like 125. In the case of Hacking the checks go somewhat higher, and there's at least one really difficult check in Deep Caverns. But with all the boosts you can get from food (bonus Dexterity) and the aforementioned equipment, you don't need to max the base value of these two skills if you have at least a point or two in Intelligence.
Is 3 CON a viable option for Hard ?
It is, though it can get difficult at times. Depends a lot on how good you are in using Stealth, initiating combat from good positions and taking out snipers and other big hitters ASAP.
51
General / Re: Returning to the game after a long break, looking for some build suggestions
« on: January 01, 2018, 04:04:34 pm »
Gun Nut is thoroughly meh at best. Having 7 INT just for that one feat is a waste of an ability point, but if you're going to put 7 points in INT for some other reason and you have absolutely no other feat that you'd rather take instead of Gun Nut, then sure, go ahead.
Clothier is also, in my opinion, pretty bad. It only affects Aluminized, Black, Blast and Kevlar Cloths, and none of these are exactly critical components, except maybe Black Cloth if you want the absolute best Stealth bonus.
Crafting skills are kind of a problem for all builds that invest heavily into Evasion and Dodge, if you also want to have some Subterfuge skills. The best component quality you can get before Deep Caverns, Super Steel excluded, is I believe around 135, give or take 5 points, but components of this quality seem to be quite rare and often the highest you'll find in any shop hovers just below 130. The vast majority, or perhaps all, crafting skill requirements are quality * 0.8 or less, which would mean effective skill of 104 to be able to use quality 130 components, but any optional components in a blueprint increase the skill requirement so usually a somewhat higher effective skill is needed. Quality 160 Super Steel plates and whatever quality Infused Leathers are possible to get after their recent nerf obviously require higher skills as well.
Noteworthy is also the fact that these days many merchants can give you access to special stock if your Mercantile skill is high enough, but I personally don't know how useful that really is for crafting. They certainly have more stuff for sale and more money as well, but whether or not the things they sell are actually of better quality seems to be a bit unclear.
If you want something different, I've saved two of Wildan's Sniper + Assault Rifle builds:
First one is an offensive variant: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQcDCgQQAwPChwAAAMKHwofCh1REAADCh3YAAMKHAAAAAAAAASQ5OzUPFUpJQUcCM0s
And a more defensive one: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQcDBgoOAwPChwAAAMKHwofCh1REAADCh3YAAMKHAAAAAAAAASQ5OzUPFUpJAjNLYwg
They're not quite up-to-date, though: crafting with INT 3 is currently kinda crappy, since Junkyard Surprise can't give +2 INT anymore. This will apparently be changed back when the Expedition DLC is released and brings with it the +2 INT Hypercerebrix drug... unless that thing has steep crafting requirements by itself, which would suck a lot. These builds also have way too much Dodge in my opinion, and I'm not sure why both of them have 7 STR instead of 6, considering that the only AR that requires 7 STR is the Huszar.
Edit: I'd also recommend Hard instead of Normal, mostly due to it being a much more interesting difficulty setting overall. Normal is great for the first playthrough, but for reruns it's too easy, in my opinion.
Clothier is also, in my opinion, pretty bad. It only affects Aluminized, Black, Blast and Kevlar Cloths, and none of these are exactly critical components, except maybe Black Cloth if you want the absolute best Stealth bonus.
Crafting skills are kind of a problem for all builds that invest heavily into Evasion and Dodge, if you also want to have some Subterfuge skills. The best component quality you can get before Deep Caverns, Super Steel excluded, is I believe around 135, give or take 5 points, but components of this quality seem to be quite rare and often the highest you'll find in any shop hovers just below 130. The vast majority, or perhaps all, crafting skill requirements are quality * 0.8 or less, which would mean effective skill of 104 to be able to use quality 130 components, but any optional components in a blueprint increase the skill requirement so usually a somewhat higher effective skill is needed. Quality 160 Super Steel plates and whatever quality Infused Leathers are possible to get after their recent nerf obviously require higher skills as well.
Noteworthy is also the fact that these days many merchants can give you access to special stock if your Mercantile skill is high enough, but I personally don't know how useful that really is for crafting. They certainly have more stuff for sale and more money as well, but whether or not the things they sell are actually of better quality seems to be a bit unclear.
If you want something different, I've saved two of Wildan's Sniper + Assault Rifle builds:
First one is an offensive variant: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQcDCgQQAwPChwAAAMKHwofCh1REAADCh3YAAMKHAAAAAAAAASQ5OzUPFUpJQUcCM0s
And a more defensive one: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQcDBgoOAwPChwAAAMKHwofCh1REAADCh3YAAMKHAAAAAAAAASQ5OzUPFUpJAjNLYwg
They're not quite up-to-date, though: crafting with INT 3 is currently kinda crappy, since Junkyard Surprise can't give +2 INT anymore. This will apparently be changed back when the Expedition DLC is released and brings with it the +2 INT Hypercerebrix drug... unless that thing has steep crafting requirements by itself, which would suck a lot. These builds also have way too much Dodge in my opinion, and I'm not sure why both of them have 7 STR instead of 6, considering that the only AR that requires 7 STR is the Huszar.
Edit: I'd also recommend Hard instead of Normal, mostly due to it being a much more interesting difficulty setting overall. Normal is great for the first playthrough, but for reruns it's too easy, in my opinion.
52
Suggestions / Re: Light Armor
« on: December 30, 2017, 11:20:33 pm »
Yep, I should've clarified that I meant wearable equipment.
I'm also all for buffing super steel sheet or even reworking it to have a better specialty than just extra knife resistance. It's decidedly meh in its current iteration.
I'm also all for buffing super steel sheet or even reworking it to have a better specialty than just extra knife resistance. It's decidedly meh in its current iteration.
53
Suggestions / Re: Light Armor
« on: December 29, 2017, 09:24:19 pm »
There's no way to get any energy resistance/threshold from leather armor. Energy shield is the only source of damage mitigation against it, apart from metal armors.
Still, it is true that tactical vests kinda get left behind in general usefulness. They're good for psionic users with psi beetle plate, and no-selling SMGs, ARs and smaller caliber pistols in early and mid-game is very useful, but if you can craft super steel metal armor and have armor sloping, you'll be able to get way better protection against firearms, melee weapons and laser/plasma pistols for similar or even lower armor penalty. Or you can go the lightweight route with infused leathers.
What exactly could or should be done about that, I don't know. As far as I understand, modern ceramic rifle plates could theoretically offer some protection against a hypothetical infantry laser, thanks to their supposedly good heat resistance, so giving the ceramic plate armor component such properties could be one way to boost tac vest usefulness.
Still, it is true that tactical vests kinda get left behind in general usefulness. They're good for psionic users with psi beetle plate, and no-selling SMGs, ARs and smaller caliber pistols in early and mid-game is very useful, but if you can craft super steel metal armor and have armor sloping, you'll be able to get way better protection against firearms, melee weapons and laser/plasma pistols for similar or even lower armor penalty. Or you can go the lightweight route with infused leathers.
What exactly could or should be done about that, I don't know. As far as I understand, modern ceramic rifle plates could theoretically offer some protection against a hypothetical infantry laser, thanks to their supposedly good heat resistance, so giving the ceramic plate armor component such properties could be one way to boost tac vest usefulness.
54
Builds / Re: Energy/chem pistol build: Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades (with videos!)
« on: December 26, 2017, 11:10:19 pm »
I'd like to know that as well, since a 53-point difference in effective skill level should be pretty significant.
55
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13
« on: December 26, 2017, 10:15:55 pm »
AFAIK, the redesigned enemy encounters is the biggest thing you won't see in areas you've visited before the update. There's not much reason to wait for the official release, though, since the experimental branch is really stable and any serious bugs that turn up are pretty quickly fixed by Styg and his team.
56
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13
« on: December 22, 2017, 05:08:52 pm »Spoilers time!
After you witness Tchortists stealing cube you know it's no longer in Core City.
"Hi guys, you can move on since item you're looking for is no longer... what the heck?! You wanna fight? Great choice as i am the Invictus and Invictus never runs away!"
My interpretation of conversation with Faceless in West Wing and elevator fight:
Faceless: "Hi player. We're going to kill everyone in this place including you if you won't leave."
Player: "Why, thanks for the warning, man. But i'd rather stay here to fight hand in hand with your archenemy and kill as many of you as i can before proceeding with my business in Deep Caverns."
The Faceless shooting on sight is a different issue, though. AFAIK, lore-wise the Faceless are supposed to be somewhat unpredictable: I think it's Old Jonas who advises the player to steer clear of small bands of Faceless, since those tend to be more dangerous/prone to attacking than larger groups. That said, if you go through the Oligarchy questline and only after that speak with the Mindreader in Rail Crossing... That should probably have a pretty big impact on the Faceless, and I'm not sure if the game recognizes this possibility at all.
As for the friendly Faceless... well, yeah. You won't encounter him if you didn't help him in Core City, but if you did do that, it does make the whole Institute assault and elevator fight pretty weird. Giving the player a choice to temporarily side with the Faceless, or leave and either hide during the battle or fight alongside the Tchortists (hostile Faceless, but if you don't attack them you don't get any penalty to your reputation) would probably make more sense.
This choice could even be the fourth main deciding factor in whether or not the Faceless in DC decide to ally with the player. If you screwed up in Rail Crossing, but helped the Faceless near Foundry and in Core City and then fought the Tchortists, the Mindreader would still consider you as a friend. You could even go back to the Tchortists in DC, since as far as I remember, nobody actually made it down from the Institute apart from the player, and thus the Cytosine Outpost garrison wouldn't have any idea you betrayed them before.
57
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13
« on: December 22, 2017, 01:08:45 pm »
Why would any of the Faceless surrounding Core City want to leave? They're looking for the cube after all, and all leads point to it being in Core City, especially if the player talks to them in Rail Crossing and near Foundry.
You could argue that in all other possible battles with the Faceless except the elevator one, the player character can run away instead of fighting in order to survive. That's probably why the Mindreader in DC doesn't consider that particular engagement as a hostile act. It's a shaky argument, but there's hardly anything else apart from gameplay reasons, so...
You could argue that in all other possible battles with the Faceless except the elevator one, the player character can run away instead of fighting in order to survive. That's probably why the Mindreader in DC doesn't consider that particular engagement as a hostile act. It's a shaky argument, but there's hardly anything else apart from gameplay reasons, so...
58
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13
« on: December 21, 2017, 08:50:06 am »
Elevator fight shouldn't affect the mindreading outcome, but killing Faceless at the blockade and other avoidable places does.
Epeli, do you happen to have any info regarding Expedition difficulty if it's played after returning from DC?
Epeli, do you happen to have any info regarding Expedition difficulty if it's played after returning from DC?
59
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13
« on: December 19, 2017, 10:41:07 am »
Speaking of Deep Caverns... Styg, does game balance/difficulty go totally down the shitter if the Expansion content is played after DC? On one hand, I'd like to get my hands on all the highest quality materials in DC in preparation for the Expansion, but on the other hand, it would also be nice if Black Sea wasn't a total walk in the park.
60
General / Re: Does anyone actually use Extended Magazines in crafting?
« on: December 18, 2017, 10:53:24 am »
That would be an interesting solution, ciox, though certainly more work than a simple buff to Extended Mags. Or maybe not that much more, new inventory graphics would just require some mixing and matching of existing assets. Some new item descriptions, too. No idea about the coding side of things, though. Styg could then also go crazy and add a belt-feed conversion item as a possible magazine component for assault rifles. Then we'd have proper machine guns, and everybody wants those. 
Thinking about this some more, I'm honestly not sure if even a 100% capacity bonus would be enough to make me want to pick Extended Rifle Magazine when crafting assault rifles. For burst fire, I like to stack accuracy as high as possible so that I can fully leverage the rifle's range, and that means a 7.62 Hornet with a Scope and Compensator. Switching the Scope for a Smart Module is probably more effective, though, but that's irrelevant: there's just no room for the Ext Mag. Same thing if you go for a single shot max crit rifle, which doesn't need more capacity, anyway. Even a nerfed (or completely removed, for whatever weird reason) Bullet Strap Belt probably wouldn't be enough change my mind.
Thinking about this some more, I'm honestly not sure if even a 100% capacity bonus would be enough to make me want to pick Extended Rifle Magazine when crafting assault rifles. For burst fire, I like to stack accuracy as high as possible so that I can fully leverage the rifle's range, and that means a 7.62 Hornet with a Scope and Compensator. Switching the Scope for a Smart Module is probably more effective, though, but that's irrelevant: there's just no room for the Ext Mag. Same thing if you go for a single shot max crit rifle, which doesn't need more capacity, anyway. Even a nerfed (or completely removed, for whatever weird reason) Bullet Strap Belt probably wouldn't be enough change my mind.