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31

Suggestions / Re: Re-furbishing for non-firearms.

« Last post by Deep Driller on November 28, 2024, 08:50:46 am »

Continuing with the melee weapons. Of course, those are great on its own, and some of them certainly do not require any treatment... but still. I'll exclude some of them, but the majority of melee uniques will get their bonuses, at least in this topic. Starting with...

Swords. That was the first thing that came to my mind. Only three of uniques are worthy of upgrade. Red Dragon is too good to be improved further and Black Blade's nature does not allow to do anything meaningful with it. Now, who or what would help to improve the weapon? Welp, there's not many actual blacksmiths around and Ironheads are never friendly with the hero. That means only one thing: the hero has to do it themselves. With a simple condition of having the mechanics workbench's effect on you, a couple of suitable components, and being handy enough to get the job done.

1. Now here comes the Claymore. Being great on its own... I have nothing more to add except for an Electroshock Generator (100+), or Energy Edge Emitter (100+), along with Plasma Core (110+). That way, if the hero meets the demand of having Mechanics of 100+ and Electronics of 80+, the Claymore will receive the following upgrades:

Electroshock one yields a fixed (40% of Claymore's mechanical) electricity damage per hit to the target and 50% of that electricity damage to any target close to it. That qould result in Claymore's getting +4 to its weight and starting to consume 15 energy per hit.

Energy Edge, on the other hand, should give a certain (depending on quality) energy damage output, but with reduction of the base damage of the Claymore to 11-41. Additionally, the chance of dazing the enemy is reduced to 8%. the durability is decreased to 1200, and its weight increased by 3. Energy consumption is 20 per hit.

The amount of energy on the weapons is determined by Core's quality.

2. Secondly, the Chainsword. A nice weapon on its own but with certain tweaking it would be something slightly different. The two possible ways are not mutually exclusive, as with the case of Claymore.

The first, and major addition would be... a subtraction. Yes, the player can dismantle the sword in order to assemble it back again. But this time, the sword will miss its internal engine. That's right: CVhainsword loses its unique Chainsaw ability. In return, it'll also lose the precision penalty, the STR requirement will be lowered to 6, and base action points will be permanently lowered to 15. This would require only the measly 50 Mechanics and 40 Electronics.

The second addition includes its teeth. Replacing them with spikes (steel, tungsten or TiChrome) will bless Chainsword with +2/3/5 additional min and max damage, along with adding +1 STR to its STR requirement (it can range from 6 to 9, depending on your work on the weapon), and giving it an ability to inflict a bleeding would (10% chance, living targets only) on hit, dealing 50% of the base damage to the target over 3 turns. The requirements this time is: metal spikes of 90+ quality. and 80+ Mechanics skill.

3. So there's only Cutlass left. I'll be brief — one could change the blade of it, but with different outcomes. Only two kinds of metal are suitable for it

If the player is a cheapskate, they could use TiChrome bars (120+) and a Curved Machete Blade Mold, in order to replace the blade. With TiChrone the cutlass becomes less wieldy and heavier, to effectively "swordplay" with it. The crippling chance is halved (10% instead of 20%), minimal STR requirement is increased to 6, and the reduction of chance of getting critically hit is removed. Instead, the minimum damage is increased to 20 (20-60 total), and its durability increased to 1990. The other increase considers its weight — from 2 to 8.

If the player is a moneybag, they could use Super Steel plates (110+) and a Curved Machete Blade Mold. That way the weapon retains its "on hit" effects, instead losing 20% of Parry bonus (+30% from +50%) and some of its critical damage bonus (185% instead of 200%). The damage changes from 5-60 to 15-50. and the weight is increased to 5.

Spears. I'll leave here The Glaive, Lemurian Spear, and Trident. Høddurform is a magic staff, which is beyong the hero's ability to understand its "magic"; Rust Maker does have its shaft replaced and there's nothing that can be done to the tip (every possible upgrade will be dissolved by rusting acid).

1. We'll start with The Glaive. I've only one upgrade for it, and it's the leather-y one. Yes, we're going back to camp Hathor or Yngwar. But this time it'll be different. The Glaive can only be decorated with certain types of leather — both NPC will explain it that they wouldn't want to ruin its beauty.

Fredd can give you a certain protective layer on the shaft. He will accept only Cave Hopper leather (100+) and a bolt of Black cloth (90+). With that, the Glaive permanently reduces its base action points consumption by 1, and gives you +2 movement points in combat and +2% movement speed out of combat. It'll also increase your stealth by 5. That improvement does not have any conditions, except for 250 Charons or free, if the player killed Rathound King. It can also be done in exchange for an Old Mining Helmet.

Yngwar would require a lot more. Firstly, you have to defeat him in a spear fight, using that very Glaive. Then, when talking to him, the player must bring up the fight and show him the Glaive. If the player were nice to Yngwar, they can ask him to "somehow make it better" and call to Yngwar's pride as a skilled spearman and Serpentborn. Yngwar then requires from you nothing less than any Serpent or Wyrm skin (90+) and an hour of time. After that, he will return you the Glaive with additional decorations. The potential outcomes include:

Leper Serpent skin — Mechanical resistance +6%, Persuasion -7.

Heartbreaker Serpent skin — Bio resistance +3%, Persuasion +3, Dodge +5, Stealth -5, Evasion -8.

Sea Wyrm skin — Acid resistance +6%, Intimidation +4.

All of them will increase durability of the weapon to 1500 and its weight to 7.50. Visually the spear will contain neatly cut pieces of correspinding material used.

2. That was quite a lot, so Trident shouldn't be that hard, right? Right. So there would be the similar requirements as for Swords: mechanics workbench in Your house and having its effect on you, along with compoments and skillful hands to put to work to.

In short, the Trident can get additional Electricity/Energy damage for each of its tips. Requirements (components and skills) would be the same as for Claymore, above. Now, side tips would have their Mechanical damage replaced by Electricity/Energy one, but the middle one always retains its Mechanics damage, be that original or diminished.

That way, Trident may deal the following:

Damage: 30-75 (Mechanical)
    Mechanical: 10-25
    Mechanical: 10-25
    Mechanical: 10-25

Damage: 10-25 (Mechanical), 15-36 (Electrical)
    Mechanical: 10-25, Electrical: 5-12
    Electrical: 5-12
    Electrical: 5-12

Damage: 8-22 (Mechanical), Energy (depending on quality)
    Mechanical: 8-22, Energy: (depending on quality)
    Energy: (depending on quality)
    Energy: (depending on quality)

and everything in-between. Although, any number of additions will be powered by a single Plasma Core, with increasing energy consumption, so a higher quality Plasma Core would be a priority. Of course, every addition will also increase the weight of the spear by 2. If all three tips are modified, Trident changes its durability type from mechanical to electronic, without changing its value. But the major trade-off to that would be the restriction for poison coating for any modified tip.

3. Lemurian Spear. In short: the ability to disassemble and reassemble it, as with Fusion Cannon. The only part that can be replaced is the Plasma Core, which could increase its maximum Energy charge. That's that.

Sledgehammers. Balor's Hammer, Mind Cracker, and Quake. Barbaton is just a bunch of teeth and bones glued together.

1. We'll start with Balor's weapon. Providing the hero could carry it to Your house and has the workbench installed, one could do something with it. Could they?..

The obvious thing is that one should replace the head, or modify it somehow. For that I have a couple of ideas:

If the player is to replace its head, they would need two plates of any metal (130+) and 70+ Mechanics. That way, the head will retain its size, but the following numbers will change:

1. Regular steel head — Damage: 40-60; Base action points: 20; STR requirement: 11; Durability: 2000; Weight: 25.

2. Tungsten head — Damage: 45-70; Base action points: 24; STR requirement: 13; Durability: 3000; Weight: 36.

3. TiChrone head — Damage: 35-75; Base action points: 22; STR requirement: 12; Durability: 2540; Weight: 28.

4. Super Steel head — Damage: 50-70; Base action points: 22; STR requirement: 11; Durability: 4000; Weight: 21.

But what if someone were to work on the head itself, instead of removing it? Let's say, add some spice to it? Well, there is a way, if the player didn't replace the head but instead made it hollow:

1. The hollow head is filled with hot coals and sealed with the lid on top of it. Requirements — one TiChrome bar (any quality), 10 Coals, one lighter, 60 Mechanics, 35 Chemistry. The resulting damage is — 20-45 (Mechanical), 12-27 (Heat).

2. The hollow head is filled with luquid nitrogen and sealed with the lid on top of it. Requirements — one TiChrome bar (any quality), 5 Nigtogen thermoses, 60 Mechanics, 40 Chemistry. The resulting damage is — 20-45 (Mechanical), 10-21 (Cold).

3. The hollow head is filled with toxic waste and sealed with the lid, guess on which side Requirements — one TiChrome bar (any quality), 3 Toxic Sludge barrels, 60 Mechanics, 30 Chemistry, 20 Biology. The resulting damage is — 20-40 (Mechanical), 5-15 (Bio). In addition, there's a new on hit effect — 5% chance to apply a stack of contamination to a living target for 5 turns and 20 max stacks.

Any "hollow" modifications result in diminishing the STR requirement to 9, the weight to 20, and severe reduction of durability — 1570. The base attack cost for "hollow"-head is set to 24. In addition, all modifications on Balor's Hammer remove the penalty for Pummel's AP cost.

But the cherry on top should the Balor's eye. Yes, one could install it on top of the hammer (only after any modification performed). That would result in yet another effect: any Ironhead hit with it will get irresistable Fear for 3 turns (not applied unded Aphobia). Additionally, Chief Banner's quest can now be completed with different outcomes:

Additional endings to "Kill Balor" quest:

1. If the player has modified Balor's Hammer with the Eye, Chief Banner will be displeased. With high Persuasion the player can convince them to give reward/or sell the modified hammer to Banner, for 20000*x in Stygian coins (x ranges from 0.1 to 0.9, depending on Mercantile).

1. If the player has Balor's Hammer in their inventory, they could ask for having Balor's Eye back, explaining it with the possibility to run about and scare away Ironheads for good. Chief then asks for any Ironhead-related item, (Iron Head, Claymore or Steyr-Auch) and for any of it (consequently, for deaths of its previous owners) he'll gladly exchange the Eye.

(apply additional XP if nesessary)

2. Yeah, that was a lot and it's not even the half-way done. Next should be Quake. Having your workbench now should be even more beneficial, shouldn't it? It does give a l,ittle aftershocks but what if?..

1. The Quake gets Boot springs x3 (110+) installed. That way it changes drastically — Damage: 60-83; base AP: 27; STR requirement is set to 10; chance to stun and daze are increased to 18% and 70% accordingly. If the required STR is less than 10, for each missing STR there's +10% chance to daze its user for 1 turn, on hit. Most importantly, its weight is increased to 35... and it ignores 10% of mechanical damage threshold when attacking non-organic targers, too. Also it becomes quite noisy (25 volume permanently)

2. The Quake gets Pneumatic hammers x3 (110+) installed. This one gives slight improvement — Damage: 50-77; STR requirement is set to 9; there's an additional on hit 10% chance to stun the living target for 1 turn. The energy consumption of its shockwave effect is increased to 16 per hit. Weight — 29.

Both effects increase its durability to 2230.

3. Finally, the one that is a little peculiar. Mind Cracker. Obviously that weapon is of other world, and it does require specific psi-related knowledge. Of all the users I stopped my mind on two. Ezra and Katya.

1. Ezra's help does require to travel a lot and high enough Persuasion. One should: talk to Wyatt Pear; bring psi-morph to Ezra and ask how he knows all about them; hack the terminal in Oculus in order to read info about Anton Matveev; venture to Hollow Earth and read e-letters regarding Matveev — in Caerus Residential Block. Only after that, and after searching Tanner's room the player can confront Ezra about his past. It will require 150+ Persuasion or presented ACoNR to talk Ezra out of eliminating the hero as unnesessary witness. If Ezra wasn't persuaded, he'll try to wipe hero's mind and it'll take 13+ Will and 150+ Thought Control — to survive his mind attack. Either way, after that Ezra will agree to help you in exchange for your silence.

2. Katya's needs are of a different sort. She wants to experiment with some psi-related stuff.

Non-markable quest: bring Katya 30 Bioluminous Marsh Honey, 5 Spirit Potions, 12 Desaturated Psionic Inhalants, and an unusual medicine (one of the list) — Trance x3/Third Eye x2/The Juice x2/Psionic Accelerator x1.

After that, Katya will agree to listen to you, but will be disgusted with the look of the hammer and refuses to talk unless the hero brings her something to calm her nerves. It'll require 1 Coffee to convince her to help you. The quest itself grants you with 1200/2 XP.

Mind Cracker inprovement (finally number three). Both NPC have the same requirements — 3 Psi Beetle or Psi Crab Carapaces of 100+ quality and 500 charons.

1. Psi Beetle carapaces yield the following: adding on hit effect of 5% chance to inflict a bleeding wound that deals 50% of base damage of 3 turns; burns 15 psi points instead of 50; the penalties when equipped now apply on hit (for 2 turns) instead — the player receives only one penalty of -10 to maximum psi points; weight is increased to 22.

2. Psi Crab carapaces: add the same bleeding on hit effect, same reduction of burned psi points, same change with penalties to on hit effect, but the player receives no penalties from the weapon. Instead, the STR requirement is 9 and its weight is set to 28.

What's left is fist weapons and knives (sorry, Firebrand). I'm gonna tell you all about them... next time.

32

Suggestions / Re-furbishing for non-firearms.

« Last post by Deep Driller on November 27, 2024, 10:18:31 am »

Everyone knows Myles and the search for suitable quality frames. But the only thing he can and is willing to improve is firearms, with new additions of GL, LMG, and miniguns.

What if there would be a few new semi-quests, to find and please some other NPCs, so they would improve a few selected unique weapons?

Now, some of you might think "those are pretty powerful on their own, they don't need any further improvement". On that I have to say — most of refurbishings either significantly improve the damage output of a weapon (double-barrel, W&S), or give it a couple more attachments (laser sight, extended magazine, et cetera). Not to mention those weapons have really nice niche feats. Take pistols: Rapid Fire, Gunslinger, even Gun-Fu — now that is "no small a boon", as they say. Now what was that for energy weapons? High-Technicalities? Alright, 8-10% in exchange for a costly investment in your INT. Cooked Shot? AoE attack, that's a good start and a good feat. But only a start nonetheless. Add to it the scarcity of chemical ammo and the need to craft Fire and Cold chemical pistols as well.

What about melee weapons? Those have some nice feats and overall feel pretty balanced, if one includes combat enchancements — CACS, poisons, and a few others. Some of those are limited and all have limited number of uses but that I've addressed in my other topic.

Now, the thing is: what if one could change the blade of your Glaive or Kukri or forge a new head for a Balor's Hammer? I'll expand on that below; the point is: there should be a possibility to permanenty change/improve other unique weapons (not all of them, though), and, along with that, add some more life for some named NPC which aren't that memorable or useful.

First things first — the two of four unique ranged weapons that must have an option to be slightly better, if a player wishes to do so. Phase Gun and XAL-001. Why have I excluded Sonocaster and The Stunner? The latter two are immensely good on their own — lore-wise too. Sonocaster is the apex of Lemiruan engineering, which can't be improved further AND there are no sonic experts in South Underrail. The Stunner is a technological wonder, that is hard to hack (in case you looted it) and should have some protection against tampering with its insides.

1. Now, for Phase Gun: that one is an energy weapon. Who would and could improve it? Some of you may have already guessed "Phreak". And you'd be wrong, because Phreak is rarely willing to cooperate, let alone dig into a technology he doesn't really want to explore. I say, there's less "could" but more "would" character and his name is — Constantine.

Don't give me that look, there's a nice explanation for that. You see, Constantine is always bothered with creatures, crawling around the Oculus. Now, as for crawlers — those are everywhere and listening to those buggers frying is Constantine's favorite pastime. But, what if someone were to clear out that Lunatic camp below the Oculus? Now that would be something that would make Constantine happy, especially if that someone would bring Synesthetic Refocus as a proof of killing the Synesthete.

In short — non-markable quest: Constantine asks you to clear out the camp of Lunatics below Oculus and bring Synesthetic Refocus as proof of the job done.

Requirements: completing Azif's quest (and everything preceding that quest), not triggering hostiles with Oculus, talking about Lunatics with Constantine, level 16+.

Outcomes:

1. The player can simply kill every Lunatic in Lunatic Camp zone and bring the Synesthetic Refocus. Reward — 800 charons, a couple of regular consumables or ammo to choose, 1000/2XP, Phase gun improvement with Synesthetic Refocus if asked.

2. The player can get Synesthetic Refocus without killing the Synesthete and bring it to Constantine. Reward — 800 charons, a couple of regular consumables or ammo to choose, 500/1XP, Phase gun improvement with Synesthetic Refocus if asked, but only until player leaves the Oculus. After that, Constantine will mention that Lunatics are still there and refuses to improve Phase Gun.

3. The player can kill Synesthete and bring Synesthetic Refocus, but leave Lunatics (at least one) alive. Reward — 800 charons, 1000/2XP, Phase gun improvement with Synesthetic Refocus if asked, different conversation with Constantine (he will be partly glad, because the hero explains about Transfinity and that Synesthete was the one who "helped" others with this ritual).

Phase gun improvement (finally) — requires Synesthetic Refocus's gem. Pentagon gem — gives Phase gun the ability to burn 15 psi per hit. Hexagon gem — gives Phase gun the ability to reduce target's Perception by 2, for 1 turn. Using the Synesthetic Refocus for that will leave you with a Synesthetic's Headband (misc) that can be mended, if you have any gem. So you can improve the Phase Gun however you like and get to keep the Refocus, if you plan on using it.

2. The second pistol is a whole other thing. XAL-001 is barely a contraption, not a unique technology. With it, a handful of skilled mechanics could fix that, one would say? Yes, and no, since that does require the extensive knowledge of chemistry. Olivia and
Georgis himself would be those people, but then again, the former may be dead/in prison by that time, and Georgis wouldn't agree to that. So, with that, one can resort to... Black Sea Muties/hero themselves. Yes, I'm going to explain:

For muties variant, one would have to be on good terms with them and speak with Doctor M. He would agree to experiment with the acid collector and dispenser, along with a couple other skillful muties, providing you provided them with medicine stuff from Aegus camp.

In order to fix the pistol themselves, the hero would have to have 120+ skills — both Mechanics and Chemistry.

There won't be any quest for that gun, since it is already a quest item, but there would be different outcomes:

1. The player gives XAL-001 to Doctor M. (requirements — not triggering hostilities with them, not intimidating any of them, give them the medicine from Aegis). The resulting improvement would allow XAL-001 to become an omni-chemical gun, allowing the player to use all possible chemical vials with that gun. That way, it still sprays acid on the user and it would have less durability (and look as if it's been covered with goo or something).

2. The player fixes XAL-001 themselves after they pick it up from Georgis (requirements — 120+ both Mech and Chem, three Chemical Pistol frames and one Acid Collector quality 120 or higher). That way the weapon gets +2% chance of entangling the enemy, +10% of critical damage bonus, and stopped spraying acid on its user. Fixing the gun themselves would be the only way if the player has not purchased Expedition DLC.

3. The player fixes XAL-001 on the spot, without leaving the conversation (corresponding option would appear in the dialogue; requirements would be the same). That would close the quest with Georgis, rendering the XAL-001 inaccessible, unless the player later chooses to be the part of Department of Chemistry, while talking with Episkopos Lydia. In that case, along with Chemoinvestigative Belt, the player would get the fixed XAL-001 back.

Note: Georgis would accept the pistol back in any case, even if the player never tampered with it. If the Black Sea muties "fixed" it, Georgis will be angry with the hero for ruining the pistol but high Persuasion (100+) would allow the hero to convince Georgis — about the necessity of the experiments. Still, Georgis would give less charons and XP for that. If the player returns the XAL-001 after fixing it themselves or fixes in via the dialogue, that would result in higher charon award.

Now, the last two of four ranged unique weapons — crossbows. And no, Fusion Cannon is both OP and can be disassembled for following assembling and improvement, so it won't be included.

1. Now, the Jawbome comes first. This weapon does have the highest maximum damage of them all. Therefore it would require surgical precision for its improvement. Completely unexpectedly, I'd say it would be improved, but not in terms of damage. Defence — that would be the result!

After obtaining it, the player can seek help within Camp Hathor. By showing it to Fredd (not Fred and Freddy) and eloquently telling about the battle with the Rathound King, the hero then would tell how insufferable the opponent was and how they hate those "mangy ratmutts". Doing so would open an option for Fredd to help the player to improve The Jawbone, either mockingly decorating it with rathound skin, or any other skin, for better protection.

In other case, the player should seek the help of some certain tribe that has its way with bones, yadda, yadda, go to Yngwar. Yngwar would help with the crossbow, but only for exchange of Rathound Regalia (if you already presented it to him, he won't ask for another). Of course, without Expedition DLC, camp Hathor is the only option.

As for outcomes — both NPC give equal improvement. The difference would depend only on using different leather:

1. Regular leather (+less than 15% armour penalty) of quality 125+ would give the weapon its corresponsive resistance bonus (not threshold); either rathound leather would result in -10 persuasion as well. Weapon's weight is increased by 5.

2. Heavy leather (+15 or more armour penalty) of quality 120+ would give the weapon its corresponsive resistance bonus (not threshold) and increase its base STR requirement to 7 (not the second requirement); rathound penalty to persuasion still applies. Weapon's weight is increased by 7.

3. Any infused leather of quality 110+ would give the weapon its correspondive resistance and +2 mechanical threshold on top of that. But both STR requirements for Jawbone are set to 8. Any infused rathound leather gives -8 persuasion penalty. Weapon's weight is increased by 10.

All leathers also increase the durability of the weapon and allow it to be fixed by both mechanical and tailoring repair kits.

2. Needler. For that one I couldn't think of better solution than to use two NPC. Again. First one is Mykola Young, which would agree to improve Needler if you either pay him enough money or use his help to fix Tunneller and take out Black Crawlers (he should stay alive after that, that is). Second one is Travis of Rail Crossing, which would agree to improve Needler but for a favour — that would help if Mykola dies during the fight.

The quest is the tricky part. Travis would want you to bring him a couple of dishes and drinks. Only after he's sated you can persuade him to experiment with the crossbow.

Non-markable quest: Travis wants you to bring him unusual food and drinks. Be careful not to spoil his appetite!

Requirements: not triggering hostilities with Rail Crossing, level 16+.

The player must bring the following:

1. Food — Bacon and Cheese Sandwich x3, Hardcore Chips x2; Drink — Root Soda x5; Unusual — Pickled Mushrooms x1. That would result in Travis getting very pleased and yield player additional reward in charons(50) and XP(500).

2. Food — Rathound Barbecue/Pentapus Barbecue/Cave Hopper Steak x4; Drink — any alcohol drink (except Mushroom Brew and Absence) x2; Unusual — Psi Beetle Brain Soup x1. That would result in Travis getting mildly pleased and gives no additional reward.

3. Food — Buttery Steamed Clams x3, Crab Sandwich x1; Drink — any Kzozel x2; Unusual — Coffee x2. That would result in Travis getting very pleased and yield player additional reward in charons(50) and XP(500). Additionally, Travis would mention the peculiarity of the food and mentions "that was an unforgettable luncheon for me", as a reference to The Simpsons meme. That option is available only if the player has Expedition DLC installed.

4. If the player brings and talks Travil into eating any "bad" food (Junkyard Surprise or Mutie Stew), this will get Travis mad at you and refusing to help you with Needler.

Note: Jon's Special x2 can substitute for any Food requirement. Absence and Mushroom Brew Travis will refuse, explaining that "I wouldn't want to become like that dude. Well, Dude. From the bar." Cigar and Mystery Candy he won't take, claiming "I prefer to keep a clear mind. I also don't smoke. Bad for my health." For bringing him Lake Mushrooms or any uncooked meat (Cave Hopper Meat, Intestine, Gland, etc) he'll berate the hero, questioning their ability to discern food and living creatures.

Needler's Improvement (finally number two).

Mykola — will require 500 (1000 if left out of the Gorsky team) charons, a pneumatic reloader, and a laser scope, resulting in +5% precision bonus and -5 AP cost.

Travis — after getting his food and 30 minutes of time, will require any Crossbow frame with quality 120+, a Crossbow Super String and another 30 minutes of time. Instead of any regular bonuses, his experiment will give the Needler a new ability: Double Bolt, along with increasing its weight by 5 and giving it STR requirement of 5.

Double Bolt: allows to use two regular bolts in one shot for -20% (multiplicative) precision penalty. This is an unconditional special attack. Each bolt has it's own 35% of immobilizing the enemy. AP cost — regular. Can be used only once each turn.

Visually, the crossbow will have another string and a second flight groove above the first one. Also, the Myles will comment on that, being all pouted about you asking Travis's help instead of his.

Now that I'm done with ranged weapons, the melee will come... later.

33

General / Re: Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Deep Driller on November 27, 2024, 12:57:15 am »

Are the odds so unfavorable to the scrappers that they can't kill even one measly Protectorate?

More often than not they should kill at least one soldier. With SGS they somehow managed to kill two.

Although, and that is already explained above, game difficulty matters. Soldiers outmatch gangsters. If you start on easy/normal there's 90% chance of you getting at least one ally corpse, be that of SGS or Protectorate. Sometimes even Silas can get an unlucky crit and whole Eel party may appear dead.

Me personally always attacked with Eels. That always (again, depending on difficulty) resulted in one heavy trooper body. Probably them dogs and sniper at the entrance did it, I dunno.

34

General / Re: Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Antalos on November 26, 2024, 07:22:40 pm »

Your character level doesn't matter, of course, but the difficulty of the game does, and in this case it turns out that the scrappers simply don't measure up to the Protectorate in stats and armor, that's all.

35

General / Re: Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Easyprey on November 26, 2024, 12:34:18 pm »

Found 2 major differences:

Old game: I was lv 11, game difficulty was normal

New game : I'm lv 8, game difficulty hard

I can try to delay the showdown and see if I can level up. No idea if that has an impact though.

36

General / Re: Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Easyprey on November 26, 2024, 12:23:22 pm »

Level is of no consequence, but difficulty might have an effect on the outcome. It's likely that Protectorate schmucks benefit more from higher difficulty settings due to their base stats, equipment, etc., which makes them outscale some shitty gangsters despite increased difficulty values being the same for them and gansters alike.

Yeah, I thought of that too. I'll try to see if I have the old savegame available because I can't remember for sure if the old game was on Hard difficulty too or not.

Could also just be plain variance. Perhaps you should conduct the showdown experiment a couple hundred times more for more comprehensive data

I'll definitely try a few things.

37

General / Re: Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Albert Altmann on November 26, 2024, 12:08:37 pm »

Level is of no consequence, but difficulty might have an effect on the outcome. It's likely that Protectorate schmucks benefit more from higher difficulty settings due to their base stats, equipment, etc., which makes them outscale some shitty gangsters despite increased difficulty values being the same for them and gansters alike.

Could also just be plain variance. Perhaps you should conduct the showdown experiment a couple hundred times more for more comprehensive data

38

General / Junkyard Gang Showdown question

« Last post by Easyprey on November 26, 2024, 09:46:34 am »

Hi, y'all.

I was meaning to ask if anybody knows if there is some scaling involved in the junkyard showdown between Black Eels and Scrapper.

While I was doing an old playthrough I came upon a discussion that explained how to exploit the showdown in order to loot a few Protectorate corpses:

• pick to fight from old junkyard
• start fight an hide
• wait (reload) untill protectorate have it bad

Apparently sometimes the 4 protectorate soldiers should freeze after entering the Scrappers' hideout. I have never seen this happen though.

But, in that old playthrough, I managed to get serveral times where one, two or even three Cans where lying dead afterwards. (I was aiming for four, doh!)

Now that I'm doing a new melee playthrough, I gave a shot at it and this time the Protectorate soldier are just wasting everyone without losing more than 10% of shields (did a few reloads).
It doesn't really look like the Scrappers have the slightest fighting chance. I think they're non even drawing their weapons

So, what gives? Are the odds so unfavorable to the scrappers that they can't kill even one measly Protectorate?

That would kind of make sense, storywise, but if so, how did they manage to kill 3 Cans it in my old game?

My question is: has it something to do with my level\the game difficulty\something else I did?

39

Builds / Re: My attempt at a Shotgun + Claymore build

« Last post by TheCONMan on November 26, 2024, 08:51:01 am »

Dismas, I think your post is a reply to the Versatility thread? I'll post the reply to your post here in that thread.

40

Builds / Re: Versattility build, common Questions

« Last post by TheCONMan on November 26, 2024, 08:49:07 am »

Handguns need a lot of feats to work, and those feats have quite high perception requirements, like 10 Per for Sharpshooter or 11 Per for Scrutinous. With perception stat that high, Versatility is not needed at all, perception already provides a big bonus to Guns skill.

SMGs are quite perfect for Versatility, because max. 6 Per is required for the Suppressive Fire feat. The Suppressive Fire feat is usually comboed with the Opportunist feat for a free 15% damage bonus against organic targets for burst builds. Other than that, the only core feats that are required for SMGs is Spec Ops, which require 6 Agi, and Commando, which requires 80 Guns skill. In fact, in my own theorycrafting I would ditch Suppressive Fire as 15% damage is not really game changing (while Spec Ops is), and dump Per all the way to 3, thus saving valuable attribute points for other stats.


Reply to Dismas in the Shotgun + Claymore thread:
Versatility is good for weapons that do not have many feat requirements. For example, I've played sledgehammers too much to know that sledgehammers do not need any supporting feats at all. So a LMG/Miniguns build, which already has the strength required for sledgehammers, can use Versatility to be able to use sledgehammers. (But if your strength is already that high why not just invest skill points into melee and skip the feat point and specialization points) So, SMGs is another candidate, as it only requires 2 core feats, Spec Ops and Commando, of which Commando does not even have attribute requirements. The Stunner is another good candidate for Versatility, foregoing feats like Point Shot, and relying on extreme Dex investment to minimize its ap cost.