Author Topic: Glass cannon minigun  (Read 4005 times)

Fins

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Glass cannon minigun
« on: November 08, 2023, 02:41:35 am »
This is a kind of high-risk, high-reward build designed to be much tweakable to user's preferences, while maintaining its ultimate firepower to serve as something to rely on whenever nothing else works.

STR 9 // +8 from levelling-up, so 17 by level 26
DEX 5 // for Strafe 
AGI 7 // 6 for Sprint, 7 for Interloper
CON 3
PER 8 // 8 required for Concentrated Fire, which is main specced feat of this build. Up to +800% damage per (Contaminated) bullet - is no joke
WLL 3
INT 5 // required for Versatility

This is a Versatility build (up to +5 specialization for 70% effective - and 80% if using the Commando belt). Max Melee and Stealth at all times. Get Guns to 60 hard-points ASAP, too. NOT Heavy Guns (keep at 0): no feats much desirable to this build require Heavy Guns exclusively, but two good optional fets - are Guns-exclusive: Aimed Shot and Spec Ops. 60 Guns (OR Heavy Guns) - is required for build-defining Concentrated Fire, and 40 for Full-Auto.

The main "procedure" of this build for larger fights:
- enter a map, scout (and silently clear if needed) some corner / corridor with a spot which can be used to break line of sight towards the direction enemies will come from;
- plant a TNT charge (doable in stealth) within area of vision from near said spot, sneak back to be near the spot, and wait for lots of enemies to come investigate the noise;
 // TNT charge produces 100 noise (in compare to say 12.7mm shots which generate only 25 noise), so in many if not most cases TNT explosion lures whole map of enemies to a single spot. If knowing that it's not needed to generate so loud a noise, or only wishing to lure a fraction of enemies - simply throwing a frag grenade for less noisy (and cheaper) bang will also suffice;
- once many enough enemies are in sight, manually start combat from stealth, buff up if/as needed, and spray away, mowing down one big pack of enemies neatly grouped up together all on their own;
 // If enemies are tough enough, use Contaminated 12.7 rounds to do the unique thing only miniguns can do: generate many (possibly over a dozen) toxic gas clouds per turn, instantly applying many stacks of +10% damage-taken debuff to enemies. The gas remains in place for several turns, debuffing any enemies getting in range during following turns - which they do, being attracted by loud 12.7 gunfire;
- break line of sight by stepping into the "can't see me" spot at the end of each turn, poke back out of it when next turn starts and keep firing;
- finish off single / badly wounded foes with a sidearm (e.g. the Stunner, Wyatt's revolver, some grenade launcher, AR burst, etc) whenever beneficial;
- possibly have some traps placed before starting the fight to make it harder for any strugglers to enter line of sight to our hiding spot, if needed;

Pros of the build:
- can wipe out whole map of enemies in one fight with sheer firepower of a 200-round 12.7mm minigun (JHP ammo for mutants, W2C for robots, standard or Contaminated for the rest);
- zero armor penalty and 7 Agility means high mobility and excellent stealth with Interloper. Plus it's often possible to effectively use Vanishing Powder grenades to exit combat in an emergency and sneak away safely;
- relatively to other Heavy Guns builds, this one is the least demanding on ammo: Versatility means effective Heavy Guns and Guns skills are exactly the same, meaning all calibers can be used with same efficiency;
- huge Strength: great carrying capacity (much more than needed to carry a minigun and its ammo weight). It's quite useful to carry multiple TNT charges around and to haul tons of loot, too;
- maxed Melee and Strength: massive damage boost for Unarmed weapons (e.g. Power Fist: +10% damage per Str point). Paired with high mobility, allows to deal with many enemies without spending ammo nor making noise;
- maxed Str and Melee allows to take some powerful melee feats, e.g. for swords, spears, hammers. Makes many melee / ranged hybrids possible and helps to deal with whatever manages to get close;
- rich selection of all kinds of sidearms based on as-high Guns skill, which together with maxed Melee skill means extremely high selection of doable tactics;
- sufficient perception to detect all sorts of stuff. With +detection goggles and/or relatively few +Per consumables - detecting traps, sneaky enemies and secrets is all easily doable even in Dominating;
- high DPS to any single-target "boss" character: fully-specced Concentrated Fire coupled with 20+ shots per turn is roughly equivalent to 65 non-concentrated shots, which is huge;
 // and if it's 20+ Contaminated Bullets hits vs affectable target, then most of them will be hitting the boss under +200% damage taken debuff, so up to ~200 regular 12.7mm hits, damage-wise, in a single turn. Crazy!
- 5 Dex: a few extra effective skill points to Throwing, Lockpicking, and possibly Traps and Pickpocketing, on top of unlocking Strafe and increasing initiative;
- lots of skill points to spend into "supporting" skills (named just above) due to not investing into crafting skills much;
- good combat ability early-game: Melee helps much before Depot A. 80sh or so in effective Guns when going Depot A, plus Concentrated Fire by level 8 - helps much in Depot A;
- 7 Agi allows to get Advanced Naval Combat from Razor, which is nice;
- very fragile. You gotta know what you're doing. Which can be very fun for a seasoned player all by itself, though.

Cons of the build:
- very fragile. It's possible to end up in a frustratingly difficult / impossible situation if not playing it right;
- requires good money management. 12.7 ammo is the most expensive ammo and this build will need a ton of it, plus this build relies on buying quite some other items - some very expensive - to be well;
- 95 (or, even 105 for Hanna) effective Mercantile by level ~20, and lots of shopping - is pretty mandatory for Dominating: this build needs high-quality goods in stores, as well as lots of money from selling loot.

Essential psi training: temporal manipulation to hard-point 70 (Stasis and other good stuff). Two 12.7 minigun bursts per round (with Adrenaline Shot) - or one burst and some other attacks, if so preferred. Can't get Philosophy III nor Philosophy II due to not enough Int - gotta plan psi costs accordingly. Remember to use Stasis (once available) to get an extra "free" round of combat if overran, or if willing to wait for some cooldowns to refresh themselves, or when wishing to get more enemies piled up (for example, to hit multiple targets with explosive .44 rounds bursts), or when wishing for enemies to get more Toxic Gas debuff stacks, etc. In many big fights, it's possible to keep enemies at range while being in Stasis - by using it while out of the hiding spot described (way) above.

Essential feats (no particular order):
- Suppressive Fire (it's a must to slow incoming foes)
- Opportunist (it's a must because we got Suppressive fire - equivalent to Blindsiding damage bonus applied each turn. Also works with unarmed attacks, e.g. Power Fist. 0...3 spec points vs slowed targets)
- Concentrated Fire (fully specced. Crits? Where we go we don't need "crits"! ;)
- Versatility (2 or 5 spec points)
- Sprint (don't need armor / shield / health if we're not hit; can't get hit if they don't see us; can't be seen if we ran away / behind cover enough)
- Interloper (it's seriously awesome)
- Strafe (hit and run penalty shall be no more for miniguns, LMGs, best ARs - and it's better than it looks on paper)
- Psycho-temporal Acceleration
- +2 Str at lvl 26

9 essential feats in total, so 8 more feats are optional.

Optional feats - special mentions:
- Full-Auto. It may or may not be desired, depending on difficulty and playstyle: some will suffer extra ammo spent and lots of damage going to overkill, others will love extra DPS and sheer power. YMMV.
- Commando. Getting this requires 20 more skill points into Guns (to 80), but it can be real good extra damage if doing minigun + AR + AR bursts each turn, assuming 1st AR burst kills something wounded by the minigun.
- Aimed Shot. Good for early game, and for lowering overall operational costs throughout the game by using sidearms with high crit damage in simpler fights. YMMV.
- Ambush. Further decreases operational costs, allowing to do ~100% crit chance late-game (lvl 20+) in many fights with single-fire AR / sniper rifle / Sonocaster / Stunner / etc.
- Spec Ops. 200% SMG burst cost can be useful, though remember Concentrated Fire does not apply from SMG bursts.
- Future Orientation. Some love it, i don't, but it's on OK feat relevant to this build.
- Tranquility. Some love it, i also do, but some say it's unreliable.

Other optional feats: melee feats, quality of life feats (e.g. Pack Rathound), Blindsiding, Expertise, Paranoia, Critical Power, Hit and Run, etc. Like stated above, this build can be tweaked in many ways.

Useful grenades: Flashbangs (and in some fights Stingball) to halt a crowd, or control some survivor(s); frag / HE mk2...mk4 (bought and looted), plasma and EMP mk2 / mk3 (bought and looted) for usual purposes; vanishing powder to escape certain situations; Cryogas grenades (must be crafted, 45 effective Chemistry required) - optional, but can be a good mass-slow in a chokepoint where the crowd will be mowed down. Dropped right before planting the TNT to gether the crowd, it becomes a full size freezing cloud by the time enemies show up. Toxic Gas grenades as a pre-placed 'nade otherwise, for extra Toxic Gas debuffs to anything coming through (unless it's robots of mutants, of course).

Notable gear:
- Rathound Regalia is a perfect fit: +1 Str, +Stealth, +movement - all benefit this build's major features;
- Industrial Exoskeleton, for its +3 Str bonus when powered for a slight increase to damage and accuracy of all attacks;
- Combat Exoskeleton, for its defenses, mobility when powered, and Wrist Stab attack (which scales with Str and Melee skill);
- Ninja Tabis (up to 2400 durability) from Constantine;
- Commando Belt: both +10% to Versatility percentage and +15 Throwing benefit this build much. Otherwise, Bought/Looted Large Waist Pack for non-combat times as needed;
- +crit / +detection goggles, with night vision as soon as found / bought;
- any bought / looted 12.7mm minigun: whatever best found, goes. Ain't like crafted ones take any many oh-so-useful enhancements, and ain't like there are many types of 12.7mm miniguns;
 // buy and spray lots of regular 12.7mm ammo to generate cases to make Contaminated 12.7 ammo, and collect / buy all Acid Barrels. Possibly even craft some 12.7 W2C ammo on top;
- all of unique LMGs, minigun and grenade launchers: refurbished as much as desired/possible, some if not most of these can be handy;
- Fusion Cannon (both normal and overcharged versions): massive AP cost of the weapon (50) requires Temporal Manipulation to use it together with a minigun in a single turn (with Adrenaline). Or even fire it twice with 5+ AP saved from previous turn;
- (Refurbished) K&H KH416: relatively early-game 5mm AR with 12 AP base cost and 9/10 (with Full-Auto) shots per burst. Good to do 1st burst to setup some Concentrated Fire debuff before switching to something heavier;
- Sonocaster and/or the Stunner: these can deal serious nearly-silent ranged damage if Aimed Shot and Critical Power feats are taken;
- Power Fist: can be useful for covert removal of a lone tough target via its incapacitation, when paired with the Stunner or such. Good for trivial fights, too;
- Balor's Hammer: this monster requires 20 Str, which this build can easily get by lvl 26 with either Rathound Regalia and +1 Str consumable, or using Industrial Exoskeleton. Hits hard;
- (Refurbished) W&S .44 Magnum: should be 0 AP Quick Draw at all times for this build;
- (Refurbished) Mini-Izu: can be good for certain silent assasination / patrol removal cases.

Optional ("more crafting, please!") skill points allocation:
- might want to go Mechanics almost maxed, which will allow to craft highest quality guns (up to 189 quality frames) of all kinds some time near level 26...27 (with Hypercerebrix, which can be bought and found, Lemurian Engineer suit, +3/+5 from food, and +15% from Your House mechanics bench bonus). This will cut on support skills much, but might still be a better option - depending on play stile and difficulty mode;
- might even want to go significant Electronics to craft 120...160+ quality goggles, energy shields and stealth devices - in addition to almost-maxed Mechanics. Should still be enough skill points if planned carefully to maintain 80+ effective Throwing, 120+ effective Lockpicking and 95+ effective Mercantile (using all the items which boost those skills as appropriate). Pickpocketing and any significant Traps won't be a thing then, though, especially if also going for effective 130 Hacking by end-game as well.
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

peet

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2023, 01:04:03 am »
Why not just go 11 (or 12) str and 16 per (effectively 19 with brute aim)? You'll have way higher guns skill and spec points to spare. Str versatility doesn't make sense when there's  the Brute Aim feat.

Fins

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2023, 03:22:59 am »
Why not just go 11 (or 12) str and 16 per (effectively 19 with brute aim)? You'll have way higher guns skill and spec points to spare. Str versatility doesn't make sense when there's  the Brute Aim feat.
There are multiple, combining answers to this question. Some are given in the "Pros of the build" section (lines ##4, 5, 6, 7, 13). Others are mentioned in "notable gear" section, like Power Fist and Balor's Hammer. Yet the main reason - wasn't mentioned yet: how often do we get to play a build featuring maxed or almost-maxed strength which is yet highly capable in ranged combat as well? These are quite few, if any, because normally there's little reason to do this, indeed. But high Str requirement of miniguns makes this option way more attractive.

There is still one more reason, on top: considering what we're getting by going Heavy Guns / high Perception path for a minigun-focused build. 19 effective Per vs 19 effective Str (before any buffs, but keeping Rathound Regalia's +1 and +3 from Industrial Exoskeleton, averaged to +2 for the sake of simplicity) - so it's plain simple +25% effective skill value (from said 80% Versatility percentage to 100% of "naturally developed" Heavy Guns). This ain't oh so big damage increase, and it'll work for Heavy Guns only: merely +16.8%.

The above is calculated by this: level 30, with 160 base skill points invested and 19 effective stat, effective skill value will be 160 * 2.275 = 364. 80% of this - is 291. Damage scaled for these two effective skill values - are x355% and x304% correspondedly. Therefore, going Per way - means damage increase of (355% / 304%) x 100% - 100% = 16.8%.

There would be even smaller practical accuracy increase, as at such high skill levels accuracy is maxed in all but few cases even in Dominating. This is the usual for all combat skills: damage formula effectively implements diminishing returns, meaning the higher you get, the less relative increase you obtain per each skill point increased.

So i asked myself: do i want to invest into Heavy Guns skill and make Per the main stat, knowing there ain't any feats i need (obviously, Brute Aim does nothing if going Strength-based Versatility, so this one is not desired for this build at all if going Str) - merely for a modest damage increase for already hugely-damaging (if need be) minigun build - or do i want freedom to pick Aimed Shot, Ambush (both require Guns - not Heavy Guns), all the melee feats, and get all the things i started this post with? The answer is quite clear to me: screw Heavy Guns. Fast and stronk - is the way of a reckless minigunner! :)

Edit: oh, and your math is off, too: going 11 hard-pt strength, with all other stats unchanged, will only allow 14 hard-pt Perception - not 16. Shave a few percent off that +16.8% above, then. Edit2: and if you meant going Int 3 and no Versatility whatsoever - then there's one major problem with this: you can't kill every single hopper and lone psi beetle with minigun bursts. These things eat tons of ammo which is hella expensive, which means side arms are key for a minigun build to be any good. LMGs as only good type of sidearm is an idea which would most likely work in non-Dominating runs, but it has more than one drawback in it even if doable without too much suffering. This is why Versatility is a pillar in and of itself, and it requires Int 5. The only question to me was which skill would be the maxed skill for Versatility - not whether to do a Versatility build or no-Versatility build.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2023, 03:59:40 am by Fins »
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

Eidein

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2023, 03:16:07 pm »
Bro people hate your spam you are at -172 karma XD.

peet

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2023, 06:51:10 pm »
You can just use any gun to kill trash. Or your taser

PaposikG6

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2023, 09:16:47 pm »
TL;DR
Valor's favorite poster

Fins

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2023, 12:59:03 am »
TL;DR
Ok, man, specially for you - the TL;DR version: "go max Str Versatility craft 200-ammo 12.7 mm 14-str-req minigun and crapton of Contaminated ammo plant TNT wait for mobs to gather and pwn big time".

Better? :D
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

Loyso

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2023, 05:21:25 pm »
How in the world do you get that much contaminated ammo. You craft it in bulk of 20 and shoot out in 1 burst. Seems like a huge pain

Fins

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Re: Glass cannon minigun
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2023, 06:28:36 pm »
Very true. Can't make every burst contaminated - only used for hardest fights. Also, it's major pain to craft - steel is heavy, toxic barrels is limited resource, although with experience one learns which vendors can sell toxic barrels and checking their inventories becomes a habit. And it's micromanage hell to load mixed ammo - meaning, loading only some bullets contaminated into a belt. Can't be helped.
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr