Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

[TheAverageGortsby]

Yeah, it's nice, I mean Sprint is limited to a total of 60 MP that you can only make use of in 2 portions of 30 for 1-1 rounds and that's it.

Hacking: 130 without tools, equipping the Engi-suit and taking Hypercerebrix with Underpie (can we use both at the same time?)

Between Infused Cave Hopper Leather tabis and Limited Temporal Increment, you can keep Sprint up on turns 1,2,4, and 5 of combat.  Most combats should be done by then.  I do find Sprint to be extremely potent if you make the footwear for it.

Yes, you can stack Hypercerebrix and UnderPie

[Vokial]

In order to cast Increment twice while I plan on casting Temporal Contraction, then I have to burn a psi hypo. Which is not that high price to pay every now and then I guess. I think I'll just wait and see when I get a rifle and check which works best for me. Starting a turn with 0 MP because got restealthed for another Snipe means +25 after using the ability and that sounds nice.

However Sprint can function as a kind of bridge-ability between two Temporal Contractions to maintain the +30 MP bonus.
So casting Contraction with the Acceleration feat prolonging it's effect, a constant +30 MP can be upheld with activation of Sprint from the 4th turn, then another Contraction if one has the Future Orientation feat (although just barely with 10 regen) meaning +30 MP for 8 tuns at least. That can be extended to 10 wearing those Infused Hopper Tabis. If we still need the cycle to continue, a use of a psy Hypo is needed.

[Vokial]

Actually, if someone gets the Premediation and Future Orientation feat together with the Acceleration and by using Increment, can have the Contraction buff up 6 out of 8 turns (9 out of 12 with regen of 11 - although one can always use a psi booster).

I never considered the Infused Cave Hopper Leather Tabis, but I really lean towards it now as considerably reducing the cooldown of a feat makes it really stand out of it's kind. What is the highest quality Cave Hopper skin, can it also reach around a 100? Wiki is not really precise on this. And where to find it? Even at higher levels (with my abandoned save), I only find ones that are really low. I doubt that it's just the quality of super steel that matters.

[TheAverageGortsby]

What is the highest quality Cave Hopper skin, can it also reach around a 100?

No, it can't go that high.  The highest quality skin you'll find is around 60ish, and it's not a drop from a creature you kill but rather a static object.  Look for the Hopper Graveyard and when you find it, look closely at all the skeletons.

To figure out your end quality, you'll want to read this page: https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Blueprint:_Infused_Leather

[harperfan7]

Hopper leather can go up to 64, and if you're lucky you can find two high quality leathers at that spot, but though the quality is high it is random.  I usually get one in the 50s.  If you infuse it the total quality can be over a hundred.

[Vokial]

Allright, I'm now ready to start the game for real. For about level 20, the plan is rock solid. By that, I mean I know what I'm doing and why. But somehere around that part, a question that I was evading all this time really starts to burn on me. While still keeping our attention to boost critical damage, we have to make a decision between focusing on critical chance, or special attack damage. For unfortunately we CAN'T have both.

Crit chance with your Spearhead and your base amount will give you 18%. So that's a given. We can boost this for another 14% with Recklessness and Scrutinous. Could gain a significant increase with high quality (150) Seeker lens, for about 18%. Now we reached 50%. That's kinda decent. But is it enough? THAT is what I just can't really tell and surely hope that some of the nice people here can shed some light on this matter, or even just share some of their experience with what they had.
Because  if it's not enough, we can still push forward in this direction but from now on, every increase would involve severe costs and this is when uncertainity comes in. So from now on, everything will come at a much higher price. I mean while crafting our rifle, instead of the Anatomically-Aware Scope for the huge boost in damage, you can put a High Resolution scope for +10% chance, we can wear an Infused Rathound Leather Armor for an additional 10-15%. That's now a very reassuring 70-75% and if you use a focus stim you'll be near 90%!!!
But this comes in exchange for not wearing some proper armor with significantly better defense. Tygrende here posted an armor that boasts really good damage resistance, boosts HP with around 130 and combining that with Pig or Bison Tabi with for who knows how much HP sounds great. That's a lot to live without, you can basically double your own HP if you're having 3 CON on Dominating. The price here is 2 feat slots and without exaggeration, fully letting go of having passive defense outside of shield emitters. Is going full-glass validate a Sniper build that have a crit chance bonus worth that much? I mean you have to understand that it's not about loosing 2 feat slots, a good portion of your crit damage and your full defense for that 35%, it's about possibly not having crits when you need it and having kinda random crits when you might not expect it, OR reaching a state where you'll score crits with somewhat less damage, but with a chance you can rely on. A chance you can actually COUNT on. It's worth to mention that Blindsiding can actually be a useful feat here, since it will boost the otherwise lower damage due to not having the AA scope.
High crit chance would certainly help replenish Aimed Shot easier, but then again would you even need that at this point? Would this approach render all your special attacks useless?

Now if you focus on special attacks though, you don't have any reason to waste 2 feat slots for a mere 14% chance, could take up Ambush to somewhat counter that - very VERY situational, but at least under proper conditions it works. Could get around 75% chance with Ambush, basically the same which the other build has constantly regardless of enemies being in the spotlight or not... Anycase, another feat slot opens up and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say I can name at least 2 that I would happily fit in it's place. So it sounds reasonable to abandon crit chance if one's not completely focused on it. Wearing Smart lensed goggles, you can add another 40% to your damage with special attacks, make both your special attacks all the more devastating. So with this approach, you're end up having Ambush and at least one free feat of your choosing ( for example the third Initiation raising feat, boosting you to 38-40), an armor with defense. However you'll only have 2 devastating attacks. Aimed Shot that you'll use once each turn if you're lucky and Snipe even less, with the stealth condition and the reuse time not being decreasable as with Aimed Shot, and the ability used mostly once each battle. However Snipe will deal 40% more damage and Aimed Shot will do even more with the AA scope. Blindsiding is unnecessary here.
But do you need all that damage at this point? Or is it overkill and with crappy normal damage, you'll actually be slower?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Now we reached 50%. That's kinda decent. But is it enough? THAT is what I just can't really tell

For snipers, no.  The thing with sniper rifles is that you don't fire a whole lot of shots, so you need as much determinism as possible.  A sniper rifle shot is a big investment, so you really don't want it to be an even coin flip.  Sure, it doesn't matter for easy fights but you don't need to worry about much for easy fights, right?

For ARs, SMGs, and arguably shotguns, yes.  You fire so many rounds per turn that you're in the mathematical average almost every turn so 50% is enough that you can just sort of curve your damage expectations and you'll generally be pretty close as long as you know how to stddev.

A good stash of drugs can make all the difference, though. If you want to get your crit chance up by wearing armor that improves your offense, you can balance that more or less by using Morphine, Aegis, and/or whatever else you need for the fight at hand.  Focus Stim will always be very useful; Bullhead may well save you a time or two, as well.  And the higher the game difficulty, the more you'll cherish whatever doses of Super Health Hypo and Regenerative Mixture you can get your hands on.

[Vokial]

That's what I thought. Middle ground is 50%. With both crit chance feats, AA scope, but Seeker lens, wearing defensive armor. AA scope gives much better damage that what Smart goggles provide, although it's only for regular crits while Smart goggles provide boost for Aimed shot and Snipe too. I can't help but feel that the middle ground is simply a choice that is unmade and avoided - thus not really providing real benefit from either way.

But the thing is, you cannot just make a difference with drugs, you have to fully commint to one side with equipment and feats. What scope you use? What armor you wear? Do you take Reckless + Scrutinous or leave them completely? If you take them, you're ought to sacrifice defense too if you would want to give those feats any meaning, because on their own, they simply won't make a difference. One cannot judge these individually, I get the feeling that they have to be considered as a whole.



Another important thing to consider is that in case of snipers, crit chance really only affects normal shots. It involves a HUGE commitment and NONE of the special attacks benefit from boosting it. So essentially you'll end up with having a great way of attacking and stuck with some other way, that end up loosing it's use. Either have normal hits with damage that's near special attacks, so them and all their feats end up being obsolete, or special attacks that are fewer but better then ever, paired with crappy normal attacks.

Okay, this led me to think that maybe the middle ground is not that bad. I mean you still have your special attacks, but with a crit chance that's not the worst. Also cooldown reduction feats and spells will hold their importance. Allright, I guess I kinda answered my own question:) I'll see how it goes. I'm leaning for defense, but if by the time I get access to super steel I manage to develop a playstyle that I won't leave the enemy the choice to hit me that much to the point that I can manage with energy shields, I might go Rathound. Goggle-wise, I take Seeker to get at least that 50%. As for scope, I check how much damage I do and see if I really need that AA or not (see if Blindsiding can be squeezed in or not and can it make up for the loss in damage due to to not having an AA scope).

[Bruno]

The thing with sniper rifles is that you don't fire a whole lot of shots, so you need as much determinism as possible.

Agree with TheAverageGortsby, you want to know what your shots are doing.

I'd say Ambush is fine, you can get crit chance of 100%, and you will know exactly when it works, so that is something to count on.

Also, and this is purely personal preference, I'd try to get some more defense. Glass cannon is a fun gimmick, but that reload screen is something I loathe in RPGs. There will always be situations where you screw up your timing, or are unlucky, so things go south. More HPs, more initiative, drugs etc will help you then.

[Vokial]

Usually I'm quick on deciding things, learned when to rely on intuition, also an Aries (not like I believe in any of that), but for some reason when it comes to RPG's, I really tend to overthink character creations. But I arrived at a point where I finally came to a halt in the form of still thinking on what should be changed, but now always end up coming back to a certain build realizing that it cannot get more suitable for my appeal - thus became a seemingly final landmark in the planning process which I turn back to regardless of how many time I set out to leave it behind.



As you can see, there's more focus on psi this time, mainly to keep Contraction rolling every 4th turn. Make the best of that 72 AP for 3 rounds and use the 4th turn with 50 AP (last before it's cooldown ends) for miscellanious things - cast Increment before everything else, then something out of another rifle shot, Kneecap Shot, grenade, trap, reload, restealth etc. Then proceed to do it all over again if there are still anybody left.
So. Again. Just to illustrate what this build is tailored to accomplish:
With our 3 psi-oriented feats and 11 psi regen, by turn 9 we cast our 3rd Contraction in a row - blessed by it's effect for 9 out of 11 turns without even using a psi booster. This will allow us to completely empty the magazine of our Spearhead by round 4 and still have 26 AP left. Cast Increment, reload, restealth and repeat. This means that by the end of turn 11 we were able to shoot our rifle 29 (!) times. No native should be left standing by then.



As for defense, I'll just go with Infused Pig armor and Pig/Bison tabi as Tygrende suggested earlier. Being able to boost my HP from 200 to 400 is just too good to pass up and would make my otherwise fragile character more durable. Social skills are covered too, 105 Mercantile with Hypercerebrix and 110 Persuasion with Hypno Goggles.

I mean you can still play around with this, drop WILL (and the Hypno Goggles) for +2 CON, or +1 DEX +1 AGI (and use Rapid .44 Hammerers for 20AP!). Meddle with the skills to still meet the social tresholds by other means - mostly at the cost of decreasing Throwing from 100 to 80 and TM from 70 to 60 loosing Stasis (no big deal). But what you see above is the main idea.

[TheAverageGortsby]

This may just be the absurd min/maxer in me, but since you've already got tailoring and mechanics I don't see why you wouldn't make a set of infused pig leather boots - even just the cheapest crappiest ones possible - for the +30 carry and bring a set of Heartbreaker boots when you go down the elevator.  You're presumably bringing a Tactful Jacket since you're planning on Hypno Goggles, so there's +55 effective Persuasion.  Since in the early game you never need more than 45 effective, you can get your early threshold easily and then pretty much save the rest of your points.  You're gonna be lugging a bunch of crap into the DC anyway; I'd rather have more Bio so I can get better drugs.

[Vokial]

This may just be the absurd min/maxer in me, but since you've already got tailoring and mechanics I don't see why you wouldn't make a set of infused pig leather boots - even just the cheapest crappiest ones possible - for the +30 carry and bring a set of Heartbreaker boots when you go down the elevator.  You're presumably bringing a Tactful Jacket since you're planning on Hypno Goggles, so there's +55 effective Persuasion.  Since in the early game you never need more than 45 effective, you can get your early threshold easily and then pretty much save the rest of your points.  You're gonna be lugging a bunch of crap into the DC anyway; I'd rather have more Bio so I can get better drugs.

Reasonable. Absurd min/maxer attitude is what makes the world move forward (at least when it's not about capitalism). There's the Lifting Belt too to increase carry capacity further. I like the 80 Persuasion it covers most checks. Those goggles are excellent, very underrated. Lightweight with a really strong bonus. Just by that, I could keep most of my equipment constantly on me and would need to carry only that. Putting it on is the equivalent of putting on a thinking cap. Look ridiculous and used only against hard nuts. And the thing is, after I attained what I described above by inviting a heavier psi influence, I spent my time with mostly cosmetic changes. 100 Throwing is too much, 70-80 is already good enough, but the zeroes are pleasing to the eye:) While with reducing Throwing to 80, one could have 135 in Electronics for top tier Plasma explosives without INT buff and 107 in Hacking enabling us to to restore IRIS.
But you have a valid point. However honestly, I don't know much about the drugs I can make above 50 Biology. And some ingredients seem like real rarities to me and I admit I never did any fishing in this game so far and don't even know how to... I just know that I will absolutely need Hypercerebrix, that being integrated to my build to reach 135 Electronics without bench for top tier plasma explosives and 105 Mercantile. So I stopped on 80 Biology for that and Bullheads. Latter seemed useful too with no particularly special ingredients. What is beyond that is unknown to me. Can those drugs be beneficial to a sniper to validate the investment?
One can play around this build still, lower Throwing or even Persuasion if needed with the mentioned boosting items in mind.

[TheAverageGortsby]

I stopped on 80 Biology for that and Bullheads. Latter seemed useful too with no particularly special ingredients. What is beyond that is unknown to me. Can those drugs be beneficial to a sniper to validate the investment?

Well, Super Soldier Drug is amazing, but that requires you get to 130 effective.  100 will get you Super Health Hypos, which are quite nice, and 115 will get you Regenerative Mixture, which (it's been a while, so if it changed I apologize) I believe is not on the same cooldown timer as your health hypos, which is a big deal on DOMINATING with the lengthy cooldowns and reduced healing.  Since you only rarely craft, I find it helpful to assume at least Hypercerebrix (I'd always carry a few doses into DC with me if I had Biology) so you could even pull 10 (12 if you also assume Under Pie) points back out of Biology and still buff up to 130 for crafting on the move, outside of the housing bonus.  If you go to 78 real points, that's 115 effective meaning you only need to Hypercerebrix up to craft Super Soldier.

Still, you should be able to get two doses of Super Soldier Drug, and a couple Super Health Hypos, as drops or purchaseables.  If you want to stop at 80 effective, you do get most of the benefit of Biology.

[Vokial]

Supersoldier is a little meh, I can't see it being that beneficial. I mean an Adrenaline or a Focus Stim seems more useful. Regenerative Mixture on the other hand seems really nice though as according to the wiki, it can be used together with health hypos and that sounds ridiculous. I can tailor my build to have an effective 115 with both the 5 WILL and the 8 DEX+AGI version while keeping the social threasholds attainable.
The only thing keeping me away from considering this skill is the hunt for ingredients. How hard is to collect the items necessary for a Regenerative Mixture or a Hypercerebrix? Are they easy to gather?

[TheAverageGortsby]

The only thing keeping me away from considering this skill is the hunt for ingredients. How hard is to collect the items necessary for a Regenerative Mixture or a Hypercerebrix? Are they easy to gather?

Hypercerebrix is super easy.  It's just mushroom juice.  Cave Ear mushrooms, Red Dream mushrooms, and Glitterspore mushrooms.  Throw 'em in a juicer. Bam! Smrt.

Regen mixture is a good deal rarer.  Aside from the Walking Fish and the blood, you're mostly going to have to get the ingredients in DC.  But given that you probably aren't going to get the blueprint until you get to Hollow Earth, that's less terrible than it could be.